Salvation is one of the most incredible gifts God offers us, but it also raises deep questions about our relationship with Him. Some believe that once we accept Christ, our salvation is secure forever—no matter what. Others feel that our walk with God requires ongoing faith and repentance to stay within His grace.
Is salvation a one-time decision, or is it a daily choice to live out our faith? Let’s dive into Scripture and share our thoughts on this important aspect of our faith.
For further reading, you may find these articles helpful:
I don’t agree that once you are saved you are always saved. Through baptism God promises to remain with you for eternity, even if you deny Christ as Lord.
No. And that is not my point. The focus should be on our savior who remains with us even if we reject God and go our own way without him. See the parable of the prodigal son.
The parable of the prodigal son was actually about God’s reaction to the sinner who repents and gets saved. I believe that once saved, always saved. The Corinthians were a filthy, immoral group of people. But Paul still referred to them as ‘The Church.’ And remember, the Church is the Christians, not the building. Plus, if the whole once saved always saved argument is false, then God was lying when He said that the Holy Spirit was given to us as a seal that marks us as Children of God.
Based off of Romans 10:9-10 I would say all believers receive the Seal the moment they allow Christ into their lives. I got saved two years ago and that was my personal experience.
Salvation is the most precious gift we can receive, and yet throughout the centuries, sincere believers have wrestled with a critical question: Once someone is truly saved, is their salvation eternally secure—or can it be forfeited through willful sin, unbelief, or turning away?
Some Christians believe in the doctrine commonly called Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS)—the idea that if a person is genuinely born again, they can never lose their salvation, no matter what. Others believe Scripture teaches that while salvation is a gift by grace through faith, it can be abandoned by continued rebellion, unbelief, or a hardened heart.
Verses like John 10:28–29 and Romans 8:38–39 are often used to support eternal security. On the other hand, passages such as Hebrews 6:4–6, Galatians 5:4, and 2 Peter 2:20–22 seem to warn that falling away is not only possible—it’s spiritually deadly.
So I invite your thoughts and voices: Can a truly saved person ever lose their salvation?
Or does the grace that saves always preserve, regardless of a believer’s later choices?
Let’s discuss this with open Bibles, prayerful hearts, and a desire to honor God’s Word above tradition or emotion.
They really don’t “lose” it, they neglect it and give it up. They turn back- Hebrews 10:38-39
Authorized (King James) Version
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Deuteronomy 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. KJV
This is the first use of God’s promise is that He “will not forsake thee.”
We know that God does not change.
Therefore that promise continues.
The parable of the prodigal son makes this clear.
The Father never stopped being the Father.
Does He ever stop being our Father?
Of course not.
When the son returns, the Father runs to greet the son.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. KJV
This is the last use of the phrase.
28 times throughout Scripture the phrase, or a close variant, the phrase is seen.
25 in the Old Testament, 3 in the New Testament.
This is a continuous teaching running through Scripture.
That kinda means God wants this information to be understood.
God will not leave His people.
If one is truly repentant, and you ask Jesus to save you, He will.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. KJV
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. KJV
Two powerful verses.
Jesus is going to live with us, and cleanse us.
Now the question is how much does the word “all” mean?
“All” is an absolute term.
Does it mean just all past sins?
Or does it mean all sins for all time?
I know I have rambled on, but this is one of my passion topics.
I think telling people you can lose something so precious because their sin nature gets the better of them for a while, is a really messed up thing to do.
Is there an example of someone losing their salvation after receiving it in the New Testament?
Joe, my man—you brought verses, sentiment, and a soft landing. But buckle up, because while your heart’s in the right place, we’re not here to pet sacred cows. We’re here to grill ‘em and see if they bleed truth. Let’s drag this doctrine of “Once Saved, Always Saved” into the light of actual Scripture, not just cherry-picked comfort texts wrapped in theological bubble wrap.
What Scripture Actually Teaches
You quoted Deuteronomy 4:31 and Hebrews 13:5 like they were ironclad endorsements of unconditional eternal security. But friend, those verses affirm God’s faithfulness—not a blank check for man’s rebellion.
Yes, He will never leave us.
But you skipped the part where we are fully capable of walking away.
Let’s talk Bible—not bumper stickers.
Three Biblical Truths About Salvation Security:
God is faithful—but faithlessness is fatal.
2 Timothy 2:12: “If we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He also will deny us.”
If “once saved” meant always saved regardless, Paul wouldn’t warn Timothy about denial. God’s promises are sure—but they aren’t fire insurance for the unfaithful.
The Prodigal Son had to come home.
You said the Father never stopped being the Father—true. But you conveniently skipped the part where the son was lost.
Luke 15:24: “For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.”
Not wandering. Not backslidden. Lost. Dead. The restoration didn’t happen until repentance and return. That parable isn’t proof of eternal security—it’s a roadmap for restoration after separation.
Salvation is a covenant, not a contract.
Hebrews 10:26–27: “If we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment.”
That wasn’t written to pagans. That was for professing believers. Why warn someone about judgment unless apostasy was on the table?
False Doctrine in Focus: Eternal Security Without Endurance
You said it’s “messed up” to tell someone they can lose salvation. I say it’s dangerous to tell someone they can live like hell and still expect heaven because they once prayed a prayer.
Salvation isn’t a get out of jail free card. It’s a new birth. And you can’t be born again while living like you’re still in the grave.
What About “All” Sins?
Yes, 1 John 1:9 says all. But keep reading. 1 John 2:3–4: “We know that we have come to know Him if we keep His commandments. Whoever says ‘I know Him’ but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.”
Grace cleanses, but it also conquers. If someone claims salvation but walks in habitual rebellion, they’re not sealed—they’re self-deceived.
Final Word:
No, salvation isn’t fragile. But it is conditional. It requires repentance, faith, and endurance. Jesus didn’t say, “Whoever once believed has eternal life.” He said: “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:13).
So here’s the spicy truth:
If you’re living in Christ, you’re secure.
If you’re living in sin, don’t bank on a salvation you’re actively denying.
—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.
Before I start, may I say how impressed I am with the maturity shown on this forum. I see good discussions, without all the drama.
Sincereseeker, my friend, you have good analytical skills.
Your point number 4 is so close.
But you have to keep reading the chapter.
1 John 2:17-19 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
( KJV )
“but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” ( KJV )
What is the ultimate will of God?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
God sent Jesus so save the world. That is the ultimate will of God; that whosoever believes, receives salvation.
John refers to those who walked away as “many antichrists.”
These antichrists, “went out from among us.”
That’s important to note.
“But they were not of us.”
It was because they were not “of us” they were able to walk away.
True believers cannot walk away.
True believers cannot be separated from the love of God.
Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ( KJV )
Well I guess Paul was pretty clear about th opic.
And John says people who can walk away were never with us.
These are good mountains on which to die.
I will hang my hat here.
I asked for an example of someone in the New Testament walking away.
Judas is an example.
He was a disciple but did not believe.
Peter was a disciple who sinned against Jesus by denying Him three times.
But he was a true believer, who ask for forgiveness, and received it.
Ananias and Saphira are examples of fake believers in Acts 5.
Read what happens to them when they make themselves manifest.
Those are examples.
One of real faith who sins, and the restoration that follows.
And three examples of people who claimed to be believers, but were not.
Bottom line:
If you can walk away, you never received Jesus
If you are saved, you cannot walk away.
In fact, you may have to walk through the valley of the shadow of death.
But you can do it because His rod and his staff are with you.
Joe, first off—credit where it’s due. Your tone is refreshing, your exegesis is thoughtful, and your heart is clearly anchored in the Word. You didn’t just drop verses like confetti—you stitched them with care, and that kind of biblical craftsmanship deserves applause. So thank you, brother. This is the kind of iron that sharpens iron.
Now, let’s sharpen it.
You say “true believers cannot walk away.” Romans 8, 1 John 2—solid texts. But here’s where we’ve got to separate what the Word says from what our theological systems try to make it say.
You quoted 1 John 2:19 like it was a proof-text slam dunk for Once Saved, Always Saved. But that verse isn’t a doctrine of guaranteed perseverance—it’s a diagnosis of defection. John’s not declaring a universal law. He’s describing a specific group—“antichrists.” Not backsliders. Not prodigals. Antichrists.
And that begs the question: what about the ones who don’t go out? What about the ones who stay in the building but wander in the heart?
See, the danger isn’t just walking away—it’s falling away while still sitting in the pew.
Hebrews 6:4–6 lights this one on fire:
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened… and have tasted the good Word of God… if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance.”
These folks tasted, partook, shared—and fell away.
If they were never saved, how can they fall from something they never had?
If they were saved, how can they walk away unless that door is open?
You bring up Romans 8 like Paul was promising a salvation so secure, we’re basically on autopilot to heaven. But slow the roll. That passage is about external separation, not internal rebellion.
Nothing can snatch us from God’s hand (John 10:28).
But Jesus never said we couldn’t walk out of it.
Your “If you can walk away, you never received Jesus” line is tidy—but it collapses under the weight of Scripture’s warnings:
“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.” (Hebrews 3:12)
“You have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)
“If we deny Him, He will also deny us.” (2 Timothy 2:12)
You want an example of someone saved, then lost?
Let me toss you one that stings: Demas.
Paul calls him a fellow worker in the Gospel (Philemon 1:24).
Then later? “Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world.” (2 Timothy 4:10)
Not “Demas was never really with us.”
Paul mourns him like a brother who walked away—not a pretender who never belonged.
And Peter? Praise God for restoration. But if he hadn’t repented? Jesus warned him: “If I wash you not, you have no part with me.” (John 13:8)
You say, “I’ll hang my hat here.”
Brother, I respect the confidence. But let’s make sure it’s not nailed to a post the apostles never built.
Salvation is secure in Christ, not automatic by creed.
We are kept through faith (1 Peter 1:5). And if faith can be kept, it can also be cast off (1 Timothy 1:19).
So yes—Jesus is mighty to save.
But the Word warns us to abide in Him (John 15:6), continue in the faith (Colossians 1:23), and work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
Blessings back at you, Joe. And thanks for keeping this discussion seasoned with both salt and grace.
—Sincere Seeker. Stay grounded. Stay sharp. Stay in the Word.
Yes once saved always saved…You either delivered, saved for heaven, or saved for Hell…
I think we are back at the place of Adam and Eve. But with the knowledge of knowing both good and evil.
Both blessings and cursings are set before us.
We have a choice to choose life or death…
If by the Spirit one puts away the deeds of the flesh they shall live.
And if you disobey the Spirit and option to live by the flesh, then death.
My thoughts for now that may change are:
If one is marked with the Spirit when they first believed… And the Spirit is given until the day of redemption- wouldn’t it be the deeds you did through the Spirit that determine your reward (salvation); state of being?
The Holy Spirit was given as a pledge of our inhertence..with the view to the redemption to the praise of His Glory. This is what I can see by that:
That in the same way God who is Spirit was with Israel, Israel still had to follow the Spirit ( God) to be delivered ( saved )from present circumstances they’d face in life. While the look is to redemption of possibly the body, soul and Spirit, do all things come to the purpose that they were intended for ?
Wasn’t the Spirit given in order to obey?
So my question: Wasn’t the Holy Spirit given to all who believed that we should obey it. So is it a promise of inheritance if you obey it?
So wouldn’t you be scared if you get to heaven having received the Spirit, yet not followed-and heaven was hotter than hell?
Just a thought about the flipside of that possibilities of that passage.
A Theologian and philosopher once said: Salvation is a life. As a matter of fact, eternal life by definition is expressed as a relationship with the father and the son… This is eternal life that they may know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. (don’t quote me- off my head)
So the subject of Salvation has aspects not just one moment in time where we say I do, but I do everyday after that… asked your spouse or friend what happens if you don’t stay in fellowship through some sort of communication.
The Claim: “Once saved, always saved… you’re either saved for heaven or for hell… if you have the Spirit, you’re good—just obey and you’re in.”
The Response:
Let’s start where Scripture does, not where slogans do. The phrase “once saved, always saved” might make a cute bumper sticker, but it’s nowhere in the text. What we do see is the verb sozō (σῴζω – to save, deliver, rescue; present active indicative in Rom_10:9), which can refer to past, present, or future depending on context. For example:
Ephesians_2:8: Sesōsmenoi (σεσῳσμένοι – perfect passive participle): “you have been saved” – yes, a completed action with ongoing results.
1_Corinthians_1:18: tois sōzomenois (τοῖς σωζομένοις – present passive participle): “to those who are being saved” – an ongoing process.
Romans_5:9–10: future passive sōthēsōmetha (σωθησόμεθα – “we shall be saved”) – a future reality conditioned by remaining in Christ.
Three tenses. One salvation. And guess what? You can’t collapse that into a single moment without trampling half the New Testament.
Your analogy to Israel is biblical—so let’s run with it. They were “saved” out of Egypt (Exo_12:51), baptized into Moses in the sea (1_Cor_10:2), ate spiritual food (1_Cor_10:3)… and still perished in the wilderness because of unbelief (Heb_3:17–19). Were they delivered? Yes. Did all inherit the promise? No.
Hebrews_3:14 nails it: metochoi gar tou Christou gegonamen, eanper tēn archēn tēs hypostaseōs mechri telous bebaian kataschōmen (μέτοχοι γὰρ τοῦ Χριστοῦ γεγόναμεν, ἐάνπερ τὴν ἀρχὴν τῆς ὑποστάσεως μέχρι τέλους βεβαίαν κατασχῶμεν) – “we have become partakers of Christ, if indeed we hold fast our original confidence firm to the end.” Gegonamen is perfect indicative active—we have become partakers. But the conditional clause (eanper… kataschōmen) means endurance is not optional—it’s covenantal.
Ephesians_1:13–14 speaks of the Spirit as a “pledge” (arrabōn – ἀρραβών), not a guarantee of final salvation in isolation from obedience. A pledge isn’t the full payment—it’s the down payment. No bride treats an engagement ring as the end of the relationship. That’s not security, that’s spiritual presumption.
You ask: “Wasn’t the Spirit given to obey?” Yes—Ezekiel_36:27: “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes.” Not cause you to be passive. The Hebrew verb here is va’asiti (וְעָשִׂיתִי – I will cause to do), Hiphil stem, which denotes causative action. But Israel still rebelled. God provides grace, but we must walk (peripateō – περιπατέω, Eph_4:1) by the Spirit, or else we grieve Him (lypeite – λυπεῖτε, Eph_4:30, present active imperative).
You worry that someone might stand before God having received the Spirit and still be lost. That’s not hypothetical—it’s Hebrews_10:29: “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God… and has outraged the Spirit of grace?” That verb enybrisas (ἐνυβρίσας – to insult, treat arrogantly) is aorist active participle. Real people. Real warning.
And yes—John_17:3 defines eternal life not as a contract but as communion: “that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” The verb ginōskōsin (γινώσκωσιν – present active subjunctive) implies continuous, relational knowing—not a one-time handshake at an altar call.
So no—we’re not “saved for heaven or hell” like we’re on divine autopilot.
Philippians_2:12–13 says it best: “Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who is at work in you…”—two verbs: katergazesthe (κατεργάζεσθε – present middle imperative, “keep working it out”) and energōn (ἐνεργῶν – present active participle, “He keeps energizing”). That’s cooperation, not complacency.
No, salvation isn’t “one and done.” It’s “beginning and enduring.” You can’t present passive participle your way through Romans and perfect passive participle your way out of Hebrews. If salvation is a life, then neglecting that life is spiritual suicide (Heb_2:3). Don’t just start the race—teleiōsōmen (τελειώσωμεν – Heb_6:1, “let us go on to perfection”)—finish it.
Yes, I should not have said “for”
For that was not what I was thinking..but what it amounts to.
If all things being true…
Pt 1. So say hypothetically a person could receice the Spirit and then not follow it…Well if they find themselves in heaven without any transformation taking place..
What would that be like?
Sense God Is compared to the Sun…wouldn’t anything that is not like Him( the )burn up?
So in this hypothetical case in pt. 1 ..It’s not that one was intended to be saved for Hell.
But it would seem that much burning up would take place.
So in that case one would be saved, but to what end.
Oh sis… I feel you. You’re not alone in wrestling through this–pondering the tension between grace and transformation is as old as Ananias and Sapphira trying to fake fruit in Acts_5:1–11. So let’s walk it out with some fire-tested Scripture and Greek morphology, shall we?
Pt. 1: “If someone receives the Spirit and then doesn’t follow…”
That’s not just hypothetical–Scripture deals with that exact tension.
Let’s talk Ephesians_4:30: “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
Greek: lupēte (λυπεῖτε – present active imperative, 2nd person plural),
meaning: “Stop grieving Him!” Ongoing rebellion does hurt the Spirit.
And the word sphragisthēte (ἐσφραγίσθητε – aorist passive indicative, 2nd person plural) means “you were sealed”– yes, done by Him, not by you–but not a license to walk in flesh.
1 Corinthians_3:15 already addressed your burning question–literally: “If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.”
Greek: diá puros (διὰ πυρός – through fire)
So yes… some folk may be saved but smell like divine barbecue on entry.
They didn’t walk in transformation, but the Foundation–Christ–was still there (1Co_3:11).
Still… that’s not the goal. That’s like being a guest at the feast with your hair singed and your clothes half-gone.
Romans_8:13 gives us another layer: “If you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”
Greek: thanatoute (θανατοῦτε – present active indicative, 2nd person plural) = actively killing sin is the Spirit-filled life.
No ongoing mortification? Then no proof of Spirit-led regeneration.
Now about God as Sun –you nailed it theologically and poetically.
Psalm_84:11 says “The Lord God is a sun and shield…”
And Malachi_4:1? “The day is coming, burning like an oven…”
And if we go NT, Hebrews_12:29: “For our God is a consuming fire.”
Greek: katanaliskōn (καταναλίσκων – present active participle, masculine nominative singular),
He doesn’t stop consuming… He is a Consuming Fire.
So yes, the unrefined? They sizzle in proximity.
Bottom line, sis:
You’re right–it’s not that someone was intended to be saved for Hell… but if the Spirit came and found no surrender, no fruit, no following… then we better ask whether He was grieved away or never indwelled to begin with (Romans_8:9: “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him”).
So while it’s a sobering ponder, Scripture makes the answer clear:
Salvation isn’t just a moment–it’s a transformation (2Co_5:17). A seed that never grows? Never lived.
Pondering with you… but always holding the Sword while I do.
“At What Point Does a Believer Receive the Seal of the Holy Spirit?”
Let’s slice through the fog with Scripture, morphology, and Spirit-ignited clarity. No fluff. No theological jazz hands. Just rhema and logos.
Ephesians 1:13–14 “In Him you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed (ἐσφραγίσθητε, esphragisthēte – aorist passive indicative, 2nd person plural, from σφραγίζω sphragizō) in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge (ἀρραβών, arrabōn – down payment, guarantee) of our inheritance…”
Morphology Punch:
ἐσφραγίσθητε (esphragisthēte) – Aorist = point-in-time event. Passive = you didn’t do the sealing; God did. Indicative = statement of fact.
The sealing isn’t gradual, it’s not progressive, and it’s not a maybe–it’s a done deal at the moment of πίστευσαντες (pisteusantes – having believed). That’s participle aorist active–your faith precedes and triggers the seal.
Cross References? Let’s roll deep:
2_Corinthians_1:22 – “who also sealed (σφραγισάμενος, sphragisamenos) us and gave the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge (ἀρραβών).”
Galatians_3:2 – “Did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?”
Acts_10:44 – “While Peter was still speaking… the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.”
🡆 Romans_8:9 – “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”
1_John_2:20, 27 – “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know… the anointing which you received abides in you.”
What does it mean to be sealed?
God stamps you with the King’s signet ring. Ownership. Authority. Authenticity. Security. No heavenly UPS tracking required–you’ve been claimed and marked by the Spirit Himself (cf. 2_Timothy_2:19).
And let’s not forget…
Ezekiel 36:27 – “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes.”
This wasn’t a New Testament afterthought—it’s a Spirit-sealed promise from the Prophets.
The moment you believe with genuine pistis (πίστις – faith, trust), you are sealed with the Spirit–not with wax, not with rituals, not with goosebumps–but with the living presence of God as your guarantee, deposit, and divine tattoo (Revelation_7:3; 2_Cor_5:5).
You don’t earn it. You don’t upgrade to it. You receive it.
No Spirit? No salvation.
Faith? Then sealed. Period.
Let anyone preaching otherwise check their Greek and take a seat.
Hebrews_10:29 says don’t insult the Spirit of grace.
Galatians_3:3 says don’t start by the Spirit and finish by the flesh.
That’s the seal. Signed. Delivered. Stamped by Heaven.
Rebirth From Baptism through the soul for the spirit in the immortal flesh Saved from Sacrifice through Penance for Holy Spirit Incorruption in The Body becoming again One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.
)burn up?
–you nailed it theologically and poetically.