@Johann That thread would possibly have been derailed here is my answer.
Being somewhat new to Christianity, it can get very confusing with the seemingly endless variations, interpretations, and denominations. It’s akin to Babel, nobody can understand anyone else.
I believe, we should be following Christ, and walking the way He showed us, why and how is there room for a plethora of different houses and schools of thought when He was clear in His message, through Him is Heaven, God is the only God, the trinity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit is real, and that love is the way. Why all the discord, I think Jesus made it pretty clear.
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What is keeping you from going directly to the Scriptures yourself, seeking discernment from the Holy Spirit to distinguish truth from error before making a judgment about the many denominations?
1 John 4:1[1]
2 Timothy 2:15[2]
Rather than focusing on denominations, turn your attention to God’s Word and be nourished by it.
1 Peter 2:2[3]
Colossians 2:6–7[4]
Grow in it, and let it shape your understanding, your maturity, and your discernment.
Hebrews 5:14[5]
And in all knowledge and wisdom? Who knows, you could be our next reformer?
Right?
J.
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God… ESV ↩︎
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. ESV ↩︎
Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— ESV ↩︎
Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith… ESV ↩︎
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. ESV ↩︎
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Nothing is stopping me, I am on my literal first read through and I am trying to take it in slowly, I’m not treating it like a novel, (I’m giving it more study then I did my old faith through the Denali Institute) I have a NIV bible, it’s the only one available to me, and incorporating what I learn into my life, I just feel a lot of people I talk to are confused or don’t understand the way or which way to follow. To me the way is clear, yet when I first began it was very… confusing to know which way to go, am I a baptist? catholic? you know what I mean? I don’t think the house of God should be divided.
While I may not be the most educated individual, while my past and present are clearly not the poster child image any Christian could see, I am whole heartedly steadfast in my faith and love the Lord. I may not be able to quote verses or passages but I am able to tell anyone He is the light in the darkness, He is life after death, He is love, and I am living proof of His mercy.
One day I hope to be able to quote scripture easier then counting to 5, and incorporate that into the answers I give, but for now the only one I have is God is Love, and He is real, and I will strive to be happy and kind, and show mercy as He did, not for any benefit but because it makes me happy and filled with love and thats the way to live.
I think alot of people focus to much on fitting in or arguing their point of doctrines, the church is divided for what? Just my point of view 
who knows I could be wrong myself.
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Too many are turning away from the clear doctrines that Scripture itself lays down concerning salvation, justification, sanctification, and regeneration, and yet those same Scriptures expect us to understand and articulate what salvation truly is, not vaguely but with precision grounded in the Word.
Salvation is not an undefined experience but a divine act accomplished in Christ, applied by grace, and received through faith, as the gospel itself declares
“Christ died for our sins… he was buried… he was raised on the third day” [1] (~1 Corinthians 15:3–4),
and this saving work is applied by grace alone through faith alone
“by grace you have been saved through faith… not a result of works” [2] (~Ephesians 2:8–9).
Justification is likewise defined, not assumed, as God declaring the sinner righteous on the basis of Christ
“since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” [3] (~Romans 5:1),
and sanctification follows necessarily as the progressive work of God conforming us to Christ
“this is the will of God, your sanctification” [4] (~1 Thessalonians 4:3),
while regeneration is the sovereign act of new birth
“unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God” [5] (~John 3:3).
So what has education to do with this?
Not worldly status, but scriptural formation matters deeply, because the Scriptures themselves command study, growth, and discernment.
Timothy is the model, not the exception
“from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings… able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” [6] (~2 Timothy 3:15),
and the Bereans were commended precisely because they examined doctrine carefully
“they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so” [7] (~Acts 17:11).
Growth, therefore, is not optional, and remaining perpetually at the elementary level is rebuked in Scripture
“by this time you ought to be teachers… you need milk, not solid food” [8] (~Hebrews 5:12),
but the call is to maturity in discernment and doctrine.
Doctrine itself is not peripheral but central, repeatedly commanded and guarded
“keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching” [9] (~1 Timothy 4:16),
and the church is built upon this transmitted body of truth
“what you have heard from me… entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” [10] (~2 Timothy 2:2),
which means we are not starting from nothing but entering into the labours of those who have gone before
“I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor” [11] (~John 4:38).
There should therefore be no offence taken when some are further along in years and in the knowledge of Scripture, because teaching and growing in the Word is a calling under God
“he gave… pastors and teachers, to equip the saints… until we all attain… to mature manhood” [12] (~Ephesians 4:11–13).
The aim is not competition in knowledge but the edification of the body
“let all things be done for building up” [13] (~1 Corinthians 14:26),
for we are labourers together in God’s field
“we are God’s fellow workers… you are God’s field, God’s building” [14] (~1 Corinthians 3:9).
And finally, the weight of responsibility increases with what is given
“everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required” [15] (~Luke 12:48).
Does any of this make sense to you? There is much more I could unfold, but I am not persuaded that you are in a place, at this stage, to bear it.
Scripture is the ultimate authority, not a “vacation away from God’s word”
Shalom.
J.
that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures - ESV ↩︎
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast - ESV ↩︎
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ - ESV ↩︎
For this is the will of God, your sanctification - ESV ↩︎
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” - ESV ↩︎
and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus - ESV ↩︎
Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so - ESV ↩︎
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food - ESV ↩︎
Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers - ESV ↩︎
and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also - ESV ↩︎
I sent you to reap that for which you did not labor. Others have labored, and you have entered into their labor - ESV ↩︎
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood - ESV ↩︎
Let all things be done for building up - ESV ↩︎
For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building - ESV ↩︎
Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more - ESV ↩︎
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Believe me when I say, there is no offense taken. I recognize that you have studied scripture thouroughly and I respect that.
I am not in competition with you brother, and I appreciate the guidance. There is no competition for His love.
And I intend to one day be at the level of knowledge you are at.
we can only continue to learn and grow, God is limitless. we can only hope to glean what we are able to grasp
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The “basics” you described might be where many Christians reside (immaturity).
Some denominations continually stress getting “saved” as if there were no step 2.
It can be confusing for someone new to even find out what walking by the Spirit is and how to be free from the flesh. Here are two resoures for someone new;
web page - Christian Pioneer - Christianity 101
pdf - https://christianpioneer.com/ebooks/Navigating%20Christianity.pdf
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By no means am I disregarding what comes after being saved, I don’t agree with that, it’s the countless other things that seperate them. Small differences in interpretaions causing entire schisms doesn’t seem like something that should exist, when through scripture we are given the road map.
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also, I do appreciate the links, and will write them down, current circumstance prevents their viewing, don’t think I’m just disregarding them.
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Believe me, I have made the effort to share sound biblical resources, freely and without cost, yet often they are disregarded or left unnoticed.
Meanwhile, those in the underground church earnestly seek out such sources, valuing access to the Scriptures and faithful teaching with a seriousness that is often lacking elsewhere.
J.
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I notice and appreciate , I just got done reading the topic regarding lilith, you, kp, and sincereseeker are among some of my most read. I enjoy the knowledge and the discussions, I’m learning from them.
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Sadly, some of them are not here. I do miss sincereseeker. And Samuel.
Two great brothers in Christ Jesus.
J.
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I really like what you shared here.
I think a lot of people feel that same confusion at the beginning, trying to figure out where they fit or which direction is “right.” It can feel overwhelming.
What you said about focusing on God and living it out day by day actually feels like a strong foundation. The rest tends to grow over time. Most people don’t start out knowing a lot or being able to quote Scripture easily.
To me, going back to the basics doesn’t mean starting over, it just means staying rooted in what matters most while everything else slowly becomes clearer.
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This is exactly what I was going for.
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It can be hard to explain why there have been so many schisms, and thus different traditions/denominations without getting into a fairly robust 2000 year long history lesson and examining nitty-gritty details of theology.
This becomes more difficult when, at the end of the day, every Christian largely will understand his or her denomination/tradition as the “default” of Christianity. Which means what one views as “the basics” will largely depend on one’s exposure to Christianity in the particular tradition one experiences it.
There shouldn’t be disunity among Christians, throughout the New Testament we see the expectation and call for unity among all Christians. Which then raises the question? Where do we draw the line?
Scripture also warns against false teachers, false doctrine, and that tolerating false teaching will lead to greater problems. So there is an expectation also that lines will be drawn, and we cannot accept and embrace all opinions. Some opinions should be rejected; which opinions should be rejected and which opinions should be affirmed as not mere opinion, but dogma–i.e. an essential or fundamental core teaching of Christianity; and which opinions are mere opinions which we can simply agree to disagree?
Jesus said “This is My body” when he took bread at the Last Supper. Did Jesus mean that literally or figuratively? If I believe it is literal, and that when I partake of the Lord’s Supper I’m literally eating Jesus, and if you believe it is figurative, then do we truly have unity when we come to the Lord’s Table together? Is this a matter of essential importance, or is this a matter that we can simply agree to disagree?
And things like this crop up all the time. Does the Bible have 66 books or 73 books? Or 81 books? Christ called certain people to be apostles, did Jesus intend only those called apostles in the first century to be apostles, or is there supposed to be on-going apostles? The Bible talks about bishops (overseers) and presbyters (elders), are these two distinct offices, or two names for the same office? The Bible also mentions pastors (shepherds). Jesus instituted Baptism in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit; can we baptize infants or only adults? Does baptism have to be full immersion (single immersion, or three-fold immersion) or is pouring also a valid mode of baptism? Should churches be organized primarily as independent local communities, or as a broader network of parishes held together through some sort of hierarchical structure? Can anyone be a pastor, or must they receive their pastorate through a succession going back to the apostles? Is only the Bible divinely inspired, or does God also inspire the Church so that the Church can speak infallibly through councils or other forms of written and unwritten Tradition?
These are all important questions, and have all played important roles in history in the question of how we “do” Christianity and how we “do” Church.
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I suppose that if one looks to the Lord — for whoever sees Him sees the Father — and lives according to the Divine Commandments, and believes the Word to be holy, then, if he seeks the truth, he can be enlightened, more or less, sooner or later, as to which interpretation is true, or at least closer to the truth.
Otherwise, if he has already become caught up in some idea as a result of which he no longer knows whether there is one God or three, whom he should address, whether the spiritual and moral commandments are essential for salvation or not, or whether the Word has any holiness beyond its historical letter alone — for example, the stories about various sacrifices, wars, and acts of violence of various kinds — then this is certainly not early Christianity, nor anything identical with it, but some later interpretation, not fully based on the Word, though presented as true doctrine or as “the Bible alone.”
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@BetterDays, all we’re called to do as Christians is to be God’s witnesses. A witness does not make opening or closing arguments in the court of public opinion. During a trial, a witness just tells what he or she has experienced. As Jesus’ witnesses, we must tell others what God has done in our lives and what we believe about him. We don’t need to persuade an unbelieving “jury,” the way a lawyer would. We are just seed-scatterers; God is the Planter of the seeds.
However, God has given some Christians the spiritual gift of evangelism to lead people to faith in Jesus, but even then, it’s speaking the truth in love, as God leads people to faith.
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knowing what the “basics” are can be tricky. there is disagreement what the basics ARE. we all agree that believing in Jesus as the son of God is the same concept across all christian “denominations.” but beyond that broad scope, the remaining “basics” are under constant debate.
i have a family bible from 1875. it has a list of all the christian denominations as of that time period, and a history of each. some have sub-denominations, where it started as one type of branch, just to branch out into additional multiples over time. the result, it seems, of just different emerging leaders having different ways of viewing certain things, enough to divide existing church body, and go in separate directions, even if many traditions remained the same with new sub-branch.
so, it depends what basics we decide to go back to.
i think continual renewing of understanding of basics is whats needed. so often throughout biblical history, a group of people would be saved by God in their folly, enjoy the benefits, praise God for some generations, but then eventually be led away by the flesh as a group. eventually, they fell from God again, and He had to save them again, etc. over and over and over. but if those people had stuck to recurrent renewing, i wonder if such major “saving” would have had to occur like it did over and over again. it was like a constant up and down in gradual extremes, instead of ebbing and flowing throughout a generally even keel as time went by. never getting too far from God. but, yeah, thats not how it panned out.
so yeah, i do think we should regularly go back to basics even when it seems we dont need to very much. to hopefully prevent the catastrophes that come with getting too comfortable and proud in what we know, believe, and live by. what “basics” are is basically a question mark to me in some ways.
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Hello BetterDays. Just my views here…
I get your frustrations. In some contexts the answer to your question is, “Yes.” There are many specific reasons for the mess you see around you. Some local assemblies are being corrupted from the inside out, others from the outside in. Bad teachers sow confusion and half-truths, and bad listeners don’t help even when the teaching is actually sound.
Those who mean well but aren’t gifted by God to teach can do a lot of harm. The pattern of sound teaching that promotes church stability may be patchy at best. The world’s influence in local churches can blur what sin should look like, especially among young adults and teens. Where godly wisdom, the fruit of the Spirit and love are all in short supply, the works of the flesh and the ways of the old nature will thrive and cause harm. And so on.
Sound teaching is self-corrective for those who truly belong to Christ and who discipline themselves long enough to learn. Being able to accurately handle God’s Word renews minds and turns a spotlight on wrongdoing in all its subtle guises. The new believer needs good, loving leadership and a mind that’s being filled with the truths of Scripture, especially the New Testament.
If you’re not already doing so, I’d encourage you to saturate your mind with God’s Truth, (especially the New Testament). Seek out a fellowship that’s grounded in Truth and rooted in Christ in living ways that cause spiritual growth.
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If you study the history of Christianity, you’ll see that this has been happening since early ages, and later as well. The point is not about the bad teachers and half-truths, but that more often than not folks are just spreading what they learned from childhood, being loyal to that, not much understanding whethen it is true or not, that is, whether their understanding agrees with the Word or not, for they were taught only partial stuff and were no encouraged to search out for their own, or otherwise they did not care themselves. For why care? Is not everybody aware that the church is where he or she is, and that the others are most likely if not definitively in the place not so correct or right? So, the millions of Roman Catholics argue with Protestants, and those together with Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons, and vice versa.
So, not many were able to search out the truth as it is, or see or find the doctrine, which agrees both with the letter understood and also its spirit or spiritual sense. So, they are basically spreading their own teaching, and on careful and suspicious lookout for everything that is different from their own. It is easier to do in the long traditions (as in Roman Catholic/Orthodox/ or even Jewish), a bit harder for Protestants, but still not impossible. No lack in the martyrs in the new movements either.
@BetterDays, our pastor is preaching a sermon series on the basic beliefs of the Christian faith. You can find his sermons at the website chapel-pointe.org. Click on “Media” and you can find those messages. In fact, his sermons are all very biblical and challenging to us in calling us to spiritual progress, which we all need.