@Johann brother, I hope you read the previous posts, because again i have explained why scriptures cannot be self-interpreted, if you didnt read the previous ones, you wouldnt understand my stance, so i humbly request you to read the previous posts on this topic I sent. Again Im not a protestant and dont go with Sola Scriptura, but I uphold the supreme authority of the scirptures,
Why im a eastern orthodox (Catholic in universal sense)? That u will get only if you have read my previous posts.
So again go thorugh it, and try to reply to it, if its possible today, since its a long one.
This message was just the preface of the Book, the real contents are in the previous posts brother, pls read that brother. This message i sent isnt my argument for “What do catholic really believe about Mary”, but the previous 2 posts I sent are, so If you could respond to that, it would be better, coz I took me a looot of time to write and compile it.
The real argument is
these are the previous 2 posts, read the post entirely otherwise one wouldnt get my stance..my humble request. Try to respond to these 2 posts from ur view, based on ur understanding, and respond after reading the entire post and not just few lines from the heading, that will give u the context because I feel you didn’t get the context and the reason for that is because you didn’t read the prev 2 posts (also I gave above) entirely that u will misunderstand the situation, so to prevent this misunderstanding, ple read the entire post, i have given it above as well, the links to the posts.
Praise be to God
My Love be with you
Peace
Sam
Already read your post, brother, and I’ve responded in full using Scripture as our final authority:
2 Timothy 3:16–17 – “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
As Christ Himself declared:
John 17:17 – “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.”
So I’ve already answered you with what the Word of God says.
What, but I discussed abt
Topic 1- mediatrix
Topic 2- titles like mediatrix, advocate given to Mary
Topic 3- Mary’s intercession- deep dive into mater ecclesiae
Topic 4- Colossians 2:18-19, complete picture
Topic 5- acts 1:14 deep dive, checking out each and every word, homilies on acts, de Santa virginitate, sub tuum praesdidium prayer (it 3rd century)
Topic 6- arguments against sola scriptura-deep, paradoses, council of Rome, senses fidelity, new advent, ccc, council of Jerusalem, servus verbi concept, example of Ethiopian enuch, the magisterium necessity, communion Sanctorum points
Catholic hermeneutics ignored, sensus plenior , gen 3;20, gen 3;15, realist epistemology of catholic synthesis, thomistic metaphysics, intellectual fidelity, Mary’s role as dispensatio gratiae,depositum fidei, 2 Peter 1:20, Carthage 397,
Topic 7- The Glories of Mary..Liguori’s 18th century work..ignored the context of baraoque and catholic hyperbole , ignores the example of Helen given by Liguori.
Also talked abt intercession in depth
So since I didn’t see that, thus I think u didn’t read the prev post, pls read it and respond to such points..this will prevent mis understanding, plus its a long post too, it will take some time to grasp and read..so pls read it
May my love be with you
Peace
Sam
You’ve provided an extensive list of Catholic teachings regarding Mary’s role–titles like Mediatrix, Advocate, her intercession, and references to post-biblical traditions and councils. But the issue is this: Where does Scripture clearly teach these Marian doctrines as binding on the Church? Let’s examine this biblically.
The Title “Mediatrix” and the Sole Mediatorship of Christ
You cite Mary as Mediatrix, but Scripture plainly teaches:
1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
This excludes all others, including Mary. The Greek word μεσίτης (mesitēs) is singular, definitive, and exclusive**. There is no scriptural category for a “co-mediatrix.”**
Even in typology, no other person is given this role. To claim Mary mediates grace contradicts the apostolic teaching of Christ’s unique mediatorship.
Mary as Advocate? But We Have One Advocate:
1 John 2:1
“If anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
The Greek word παράκλητος (paraklētos) is only applied to Christ and the Holy Spirit. No apostolic writer ever applies this to Mary. Elevating her to such a role violates the sufficiency of Christ’s advocacy.
Mary’s Intercession: Where in Scripture?
Acts 1:14 does show Mary present in prayer with the disciples—but not leading, not singled out, and certainly not interceding for the Church.
Acts 1:14 “All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.”
This is descriptive, not prescriptive. She is simply a faithful believer among the gathered. The apostles never appeal to her for prayer, intercession, or spiritual aid.
Misuse of Genesis 3:15 and Mary’s Role
Genesis 3:15 speaks of the seed of the woman crushing the serpent—not the woman herself. Paul interprets this as fulfilled in Christ:
Romans 16:20 “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.”
No apostolic writer identifies Mary with this promise. The crushing is Christ’s, not Mary’s.
Colossians 2:18–19 Condemns Worship of Mediating Figures
Colossians 2:18–19 “Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions… and not holding fast to the Head.”
Paul condemns any worship or excessive focus on heavenly intermediaries, which detracts from the Head, who is Christ. Elevating Mary as “Dispenser of Grace” or “Queen of Heaven” risks this very error—drawing believers away from full dependence on Christ alone.
Sola Scriptura vs. Catholic Tradition
You object to sola scriptura, appealing instead to paradosis (tradition), the Magisterium, and Thomistic metaphysics. But the apostolic standard is Scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16–17 “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching… that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
Scripture alone is said to make the believer complete. Nothing is lacking that needs supplementation from councils, saints, or speculative philosophy.
The Example of the Bereans
Acts 17:11
“Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.”
Paul praises those who test even apostolic teaching against the Scriptures. How much more must we test claims about Mary that are found nowhere in the inspired Word?
Ethiopian Eunuch and Apostolic Teaching
Yes, the eunuch needed help to understand Isaiah, but that help came from Philip, an apostle’s appointed messenger, who “preached to him Jesus” (Acts 8:35), not church councils or Marian doctrines.
So, let’s sum this up quickly and decisively.
Brother, I say this with love: your appeal to many topics–glossed with Latin phrases, historical councils, and saints’ writings–does not hold if Scripture does not clearly teach them.
The apostles never gave Mary the role that later traditions assigned to her. She was honored as the mother of the Lord, but never elevated to co-mediatrix or queen of heaven. That belongs to Christ alone.
Revelation 19:16
“On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.”
There is no queen of heaven in the New Testament Church. The only “Queen of Heaven” in Scripture is a false goddess condemned by God:
Jeremiah 7:18
“They make cakes for the Queen of Heaven… Do they provoke me to anger? declares the Lord.”
May our faith rest solely on Christ, the Word of God, and the foundation laid by the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20).
@Johann yeah this is what I wanted, yes yes this is what I was discussing about….now I get your point, again its hard to counter and we will deviate into metaphysics and other ceoncepts which aren’t explicitly mentioned but developed over the ages which takes time to discuss and is quite deep, so yeah, l will learn abt these counter points and put forward what I learnt maybe tomorrow or so… but yeah nice
St .irenaeus talks abt new eve as Mary…brother brother pls read….. and so on
May my love be with you
Peace
Sam
Here are the links
1st part-go line by line discussion What Do Catholics Really Believe About Mary—and Should Protestants Care? ONESTOP THREAD - #58 by Samuel_23,
Click on the link to see the full discussion, actually when we counter we counter idea by idea and line by line..I have given some evidences so we go by topic-by topic, u read my topic and counter it by writing a counter-topic in opposition to what I said but it must go topic by topic, this structure will prevent misunderstanding,
Go line by line, topic by topic, evidence by evidence, ideologies by ideologies
Again go line by line, topic by topic, and yes I understand ,its not necessary u reply today, u can give me by tomorrow, in 2 days or even take a week, but we need to go line by line
May my love be with you
Peace
Sam
Brother, I’ve taken the time to read your lengthy post and have responded with Scripture as my foundation. You’ve leaned heavily on Catholic dogmas, councils, and ecclesiastical traditions, but I must ask—have you truly searched the Scriptures themselves? Because from what I’ve seen, your arguments seem rooted more in creed than in the Word. Am I mistaken in this?
Ooo ok ok now I see the point your making..ok ok thanks for that information..I have searched the scriptures but I interpret it through the lens of Catholic Church / Orthodox Church that’s why I heavily relied on catholic traditions and ecclesiastical topics because acc to me church has the authority to interpret scriptures by the power of the Holy Spirit and the formulations of doctrines and ideas define the faith..so yes that’s the main reason I use catholic interpretations, what do u think on how we shld start on interpreting scriptures and how do we know its the right way..that’s the question I’m not getting for a long time.
What the church said that the scriptures are meant to be read and interpreted in church and not be taken home in the first place…that’s what I learnt and I don’t know the answer to this and it feels right to interpret the scriptures in the church and to mediate on it in the church so that’s also another reason why I used the catholic lens.
May my love be with you
Peace
Sam
• Claim: “I interpret through the lens of the Catholic or Orthodox Church because they have the authority to interpret Scripture by the Holy Spirit.”
Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit indwells and guides all believers, not just a magisterial class:
John 16:13 — “When the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth.”
The verb ὁδηγήσει (future active indicative of ὁδηγέω) means “to lead, to guide.” The pronoun “you” (ὑμᾶς) is plural, referring to the collective body of believers, not solely the Church hierarchy.
1 John 2:27 — “The anointing that you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you.”
The Greek verb χρείαν ἔχετε (present active indicative) shows ongoing sufficiency. The Spirit’s indwelling is not mediated solely through ecclesial authority.
The Spirit is given to the whole Church, not monopolized by ecclesiastical officials.
• Claim: “The Church defines doctrines and ideas, so I rely on its authority.”
Scripture shows that final authority rests in the Word of God, not in church tradition:
Acts 17:11 — “They received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.”
The verb ἀνακρίνοντες (present active participle of ἀνακρίνω) means “to examine critically.” Even the teaching of the apostle Paul was tested by the written Word.
Galatians 1:8–9 — “Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”
Paul places the authority of the original gospel above any later church proclamation, even his own.
Even apostolic teaching was subordinate to the message already given by God.
• Claim: “Scripture should be read in the Church only and not taken home—that’s what I was taught.”
This idea is inconsistent with the biblical command to meditate on the Word personally and continually:
Deuteronomy 6:6–7 — “These words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children… when you sit in your house.”
The Word was intended for home-centered instruction and meditation.
Psalm 1:2 — “But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.”
The verb הָגָה is in the imperfect aspect, indicating continual meditation in private, not just public reading.
Colossians 3:16 — “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly.”
The verb ἐνοικείτω is present active imperative—an ongoing command addressed to all believers.
God’s Word is designed for both corporate and personal devotion.
• Claim: “I don’t know how to interpret Scripture rightly unless guided by the Church.”
Scripture itself lays out the framework for proper interpretation, which does not include a requirement for magisterial oversight:
2 Timothy 3:16–17 — “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable… that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
The word ἄρτιος means “complete” and ἐξηρτισμένος means “fully equipped.” Scripture alone is sufficient to equip the believer.
Matthew 12:3 and Matthew 19:4 — Jesus repeatedly asked, “Have you not read?”
He expected personal engagement with Scripture, not blind submission to religious institutions.
1 Corinthians 2:12–13 — “We have received… the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God… comparing spiritual with spiritual.”
The Greek verb συγκρίνοντες (present active participle of συγκρίνω) means “to compare, to interpret by spiritual alignment.”
This is how Scripture is to be interpreted: by the Spirit, not by ecclesial decree.
• Question: “How do we know we are interpreting Scripture rightly?”
Scripture itself instructs us to compare Scripture with Scripture, and use the whole counsel of God:
Isaiah 28:10 — “Precept upon precept, line upon line…”
This shows the principle of interpretive consistency.
Acts 20:27 — “I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.”
Doctrine is discerned by taking in all of God’s Word, not selected traditions.
2 Timothy 2:15 — “Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
The verb ὀρθοτομοῦντα (present active participle of ὀρθοτομέω) means “to cut straight,” indicating precise, careful handling of Scripture.
Scripture is not just to be read—it is to be studied, cross-examined, and spiritually discerned by every believer.
• Conclusion
The Catholic Church’s claim to exclusive interpretive authority is not grounded in Scripture. The Bereans were praised for verifying even apostolic teaching against the written Word. Paul warned that even an angel’s message must be tested by the gospel already received. Jesus assumed that people could read and understand Scripture without priestly mediation. The Spirit is given to all believers, not just the hierarchy.
Psalm 119:105 — “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.”
God’s Word—read, trusted, and rightly handled by the Spirit—is the believer’s light, not church traditions.
Oo man fire, but yeah idk what to say.. But I’m eastern orthodox but your points make sense but after all these years of study, I feel at peace with the teachings of church so I take scripture + church, although Im not in complete agreement with Catholic Church but their doctrines make sense and are beautiful but I root myself in eastern orthodox and will take stance of eastern orthodox in cases when it doesn’t align with catholic doctrine, such as immaculate conception, filiqoue etc. But there are lots of topics to discuss and they are quite deep, wherein the scripture doesn’t include, but are progressively revealed by the Holy Spirit. In the scriptures we see the work of God the Son but the remaining works of the Holy Spirit:
26 “I will send you the Helper[a] from the Father. The Helper is the Spirit of truth[b] who comes from the Father. When he comes, he will tell about me. 27 And you will tell people about me too, because you have been with me from the beginning.
These are seen in church traditions and doctrines and are not explicit in scripture. Ignatius and Polycarp , disciples of St. John also wrote several books, now we ignore it or not are centuries of debate but I feel the Holy Spirit inspired such works and we ought to learn but yeah I know what ur saying but I don’t agree as we have to see the entire picture. And I clearly take the stance of Eastern orthodox and I cannot come in line with sola scriptural
But I feel to reject a catholic doctrine you need to learn about catholic doctrine and not just reject it because it’s ‘catholic doctrine’ for deep inside u never know if it’s inspired by the Holy Spirit or not, although it aligns with scripture, we still reject just beacaude it’s Catholic, we never get to know the full picture without learning the other side of the same scenery, thus to argue against catholiscm you need to know catholic belief and doctrines the find evidencea against it, but again.. What’s the line and why are there centuries of debate, why haven’t we been able to come to ground, it’s something to ponder, it’s something deep, it’s something mysterious, the let that mystery be a mystery and that hard to grasp be hard, but we cannot draw a line on what’s correct and not.. That cannot be possible.. The diff is both sides use scripture, one side is literal interpretation and the other side is realist interpretation epistemology contra nominalist so yes.. There are no clear lines of definition, then let it be, for in pursuit of it, we should not wander in things not revealed but limit ourselves to the present circumstances.
So, then, you do not align yourself with the Scriptures as your primary authority? Understood, brother.
As for me, I begin with the Scriptures, τὰς γραφάς (tas graphas, cf. John 5:39), and only afterward consider secondary sources.
Many begin with tradition, commentaries, and councils, often παριδόντες (paridontes, “neglecting,” see Matthew 23:23) the direct study of the Word of God.
The apostle Paul exhorts:
“All Scripture is breathed out by God [πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος, pasa graphē theopneustos] and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness…”
— 2 Timothy 3:16–17 ESV
Nowhere in Scripture is Mary called Μεσίτρια (mesítria, “mediatrix”) or Σωτήρ (sōtēr, “savior”); such titles are given only to Christ:
“For there is one God, and there is one mediator [εἷς μεσίτης, heis mesitēs] between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
— 1 Timothy 2:5 ESV
“And she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save [σώσει, sōsei] his people from their sins.”
— Matthew 1:21
As for the sufficiency of Scripture:
“The sword of the Spirit [μάχαιρα τοῦ πνεύματος, machaira tou pneumatos], which is the Word of God [ῥῆμα θεοῦ, rhēma Theou]”
— Ephesians 6:17
It is that Word—ζῶν γὰρ ὁ λόγος τοῦ θεοῦ (“for the word of God is living,” Hebrews 4:12)—that exposes every high thing that exalts itself against Christ.
“We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ.”
— 2 Corinthians 10:5 ESV
Thus, I do not wield tradition as my sword… I wield the written Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Ruach HaKodesh, as the apostolic writers did.
If we begin elsewhere, then we cannot say with the Bereans:
“They received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily [τὰς γραφὰς καθ’ ἡμέραν ἀνακρίνοντες, tas graphas kath’ hēmeran anakrinontes] to see if these things were so.”
— Acts 17:11
Yes brother Johann, ur right, i see ur stance, and i get your reasoning as well
but for me i need tradition + scripture,
We will discuss more about sola scriptura only, in some other post and this will help me to get a better understanding, as I have studied reformed theology as well, i wanted to discuss some doubts, so tomo i’ll make a post and we can discuss there, this may even change my perception, you never know…so lets meet tomo and discuss abt it
May my love be with you
Praise be to God
Peace
Sam
English (ESV):
The LORD bless you and keep you;
the LORD make His face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
the LORD lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.
May this blessing rest upon you and your household continually,
בְּשֵׁם יֵשׁוּעַ הַמָּשִׁיחַ - b’shem Yeshua HaMashiach - in the name of Jesus the Messiah.
I Know, my poor poor logic? If anyone but Stephen could tell us this then we may believe fulfilled faith and morality through the Christ in logic?
To me the Word is The Holy Spirit Family One God in being through three powers and Personal Gods in being coming inside of us and living in us, all mankind.
To me the truth is the Holy Family conceived in the Flesh of Jesus is becoming The Christ in all mankind becoming again One Holy Spirit Family One God in being. Logically and Faithfully truthfully rationally, to me.
We know, in all generalization they were wrong, and that I am not inserting The Mother, God of Mercy, Queen of Heaven, Mother of Son of God from the Holy Spirit Mother of Son of Man through the Immaculate Flesh becoming Mother of The Christ in all mankind in Two Natures as The Word and Family of God becoming flesh in One Body of The Christ, one my be leaving out The Mother of God, logically. The Holy Spirit is the Family of God on God in being through both natures, rationally and faithfully.
To me the feature/ benefits of fulfilled creation Word Order becomes that, True faithfully we are saved but No one quite gets the logic this until they think logically and reread this, now even Popes and Preachers and World Leaders and all mankind can understand the Logical Mind of God. Just a simple test, Teach the logic of The Mind of God to a child and have the child explain, then to us, to all, will become His Will. To me the logic removes all mental hate and mental anger, uniting all and removing fear from separation becoming again One God in being, uniting all as one in being and stops all wars, rationally.
The Miriam Presence is indwelled in The Trinity the Church is seeking and cannot see even until today. Creation is from the equal and separate powers and Personal Gods in being in the Trinity from Father through The Mother for the Son becoming The Christ in all becoming again One Holy Family One God in being.
No Women in The Trinity? No way, to me this is right.
To me Romans 11:36 have to right re-gender translated social blunder faux pas correction.
For from him The Father and through her, The Mother and to him, Jesus becoming are all things. To him, becoming again in The Holy Spirit Family One God in being be the glory forever. Amen.
This is just to simple to be even questioning, to me. Mary is there and always has been in One Family together with the Father and the Son, from the beginning, John 1:1. Mary, Queen of Council authored The Gospel According to John and The Book of Revelation, to me. John took Mary home from the cross, and for perhaps 40 tears. John would ask, Mary? what was it like in the beginning, with your Son? And we are the disciple he loves the most from the cross He calls us by name, “Disciple” for He loves all with only the most love when He says, "Ecce Mater tua. “Behold your Mother.”
Through The Mother, Now we can explain the personal relationship becoming through The Christ. We are created all mankind from The Father reborn from the New Eve, Mary transformed immortality saved from the New Adam. Jesus through Holy Spirit Family Incorruption becoming glorified and transfigured becoming again One Holy Family One God in being so even now a child can understand The Mind of God.
Solemnity of the Ascension of the Lord
far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion,
and every name that is named
not only in this age but also in the one to come.
And he put all things beneath his feet
and gave him as head over all things to the church,
which is his body,
the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.
The foundation of truth is not mystical speculation about “The Mother,” “Immaculate Flesh,” or “Two Hatures,” but what is revealed in the written Word of God—the Scriptures inspired by the Holy Spirit and preserved by God Himself.
You say “The Holy Spirit is the Family of God on God in being through both natures…”
But Scripture nowhere refers to the Holy Spirit as a “Family” or as possessing two natures. Instead:
John 14:26 – “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.”
The Spirit is not the “Family of God in being”—He is the third divine person of the Trinity, sent by the Father in the name of the Son, to glorify the Son (John 16:14), not to introduce a new ontology or feminine principle.
You reference “The Mother… God of Mercy, Queen of Heaven…”
But Scripture gives no divine titles to Mary. The title “Queen of Heaven” in fact refers in Scripture to a pagan idol condemned by the prophet Jeremiah:
Jeremiah 7:18 – “The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke Me to anger.”
This title—“Queen of Heaven”—is not a name the Holy Spirit gave to Mary. It is a blasphemous title used by apostate Judah to honor a false goddess. To assign that name to the blessed mother of our Lord is neither pious nor biblical, but grievous.
As for Mary being “Mother of God through the Holy Spirit, Mother of Son of Man through Immaculate Flesh,” the Scriptures affirm that Mary is the mother of Jesus, and that Jesus is both God and Man. But Scripture never presents Mary as the source of Christ’s divine nature.
Luke 1:35 – “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.”
Jesus was conceived by the Spirit’s power, not from an eternal feminine counterpart, but as an act of divine will, not sexual generation nor consubstantial motherhood.
You refer to “The Christ in all mankind in Two Natures…” but Christ’s two natures—divine and human—are united in His person, not spread out over mankind.
1 Timothy 2:5 – “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Christ is not divided among mankind; He alone is the mediator, not dispersed through mystical “family” language.
Colossians 1:19 – “For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell.”
The fullness of deity dwells bodily in Christ—not in “flesh becoming The Christ in all mankind.”
Finally, your appeal to “generalization” over doctrine does not reflect the method of Christ or the apostles. They did not speak in opaque riddles, but with clarity, rooted in the written Word.
2 Peter 1:16 – “For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.”
The apostles did not teach mystical concepts of “The Mother” or “Holy Spirit as Family”—they taught Christ crucified and risen, and urged all to return to the Scripture for truth.
Isaiah 8:20 – “To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no light.”
So I urge you, Stephen, let your words be measured by the Word of God, not by mystical speculation or theological poetry. Christ has spoken. The Spirit has borne witness. And the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation (2 Timothy 3:15).
Jesus was not created when the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary The Scriptures teach that the Son preexisted His incarnation.
He was with God and was God before the world began – Joh_1:1–3, Joh_8:58 cf. Exo_3:14, Col_1:15–17, Heb_1:2–3.
The flesh (humanity) began at the conception (Mat_1:20; Luk_1:35), but the Person who took on that flesh was eternally begotten–not created.
• Mary is rightly called the “Mother of God” in the sense of the Theotokos (God-bearer)
While Mary did not originate the divine nature of Christ, she did bear the Person of Jesus Christ, who is fully God and fully man – Isa_7:14; Luk_1:43 (“the mother of my Lord”); Mat_1:23; Joh_1:14; Gal_4:4.
Denying this can lead to the Nestorian error of separating Christ’s divine and human natures into two persons.
• Jesus is not merely ‘the flesh that robed the Spirit’
The Son is not just a human shell for a divine spirit. Scripture affirms the full hypostatic union: God the Son took on human nature and became flesh – Joh_1:14; Php_2:6–8; Heb_2:14–17.
Col_2:9 – “For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
• Yes, Jesus truly died, but not as God ceasing to exist
The divine nature did not die, but the Person of Christ did truly die in His human nature – Mat_27:50; Luk_23:46; Rom_5:6–8; 1Co_15:3.
The divine Logos did not perish, but He experienced death through His assumed humanity – Heb_2:9, Heb_10:5, Act_20:28 (“God purchased with His own blood”).
• Jesus rose bodily, not just ‘God rose again’
The resurrection is of the same body that died – Luk_24:39–43; Joh_20:27; Joh_2:19–21; Rom_6:9; Act_2:24, Act_17:31; 1Co_15:3–4, 1Co_15:20–22.
God existed as Spirit before Jesus Christ came in bodily form. To say Mary is mother of God is blasphemy…the flesh is not the everlasting nor is it God.There is only one God, of course God existed before the incarnation. God was IN Christ reconciling the world unto Himself.
You’re clearly seeking something profound: a logic that not only illuminates doctrine but unites creation under one divine purpose. And yes, your OMNILogic speaks with passion about unity, peace, and divine indwelling. But here’s the crux: if the foundation isn’t scriptural, then even the most dazzling logic can lead us somewhere God has not spoken.
Let me be plain. Mary is not God. She is not part of the Trinity. The Scriptures do not place her in the divine essence of “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.” To include her as “God of Mercy” or as a divine co-equal is not just theological error—it’s dangerous. Mary was chosen, honored, overshadowed, and blessed. But she was not eternally begotten, not omnipotent, not Creator. She herself calls God “my Savior” (Luke 1:47), which is not the cry of a divine being, but of a redeemed one.
Yes, she is Theotokos—God-bearer—not because she is divine, but because the One she bore is. That title safeguards the full divinity and full humanity of Christ. It doesn’t elevate Mary into the Trinity; it anchors Jesus in it.
Romans 11:36 says, “For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.” That’s not a grammatical gap. That’s a glory statement. To re-gender the text in order to insert Mary into the Godhead is to rewrite the revelation of God in order to fit a theology of feeling. That’s not just a misstep—it’s a reversal of Revelation.
The Gospel of John and the Apocalypse were written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, not co-authored by Mary. The Spirit, not human memory, is the guarantee of divine truth (John 14:26). To elevate tradition or logic above revelation is to invite confusion, not clarity. And yes, Mary is blessed among women (Luke 1:42)—but she is not above the Name which is above every name (Phil. 2:9).
We can love Mary, honor her, bless her memory, and still guard the truth: she points to Christ, not herself. The true Mind of God is revealed in the Word made flesh—not through speculative logic but through the Scriptures that testify of Him (John 5:39).
May the Spirit give us eyes to see Christ clearly, and hearts to worship Him alone.
So true, sincereseeker I feel your faith, profound as strong as any.
We all know The new ark of the covenant is real, and it is delivered through the flesh from the spirit for the souls of all created in the body becoming again one Holy Spirit family one God in being no one can logically put together without the mother.
To me the two sacraments from death to life are baptism through the flesh and penance from the Holy Spirit, becoming again from the spirit to the soul for the flesh in the one body becoming again one God in being.
In all generations We become into the church into the new eve through the new eve baptized becoming immortality from death through resurrection by the living waters from the spirit through the souls of all created for the flesh in the body to be able to become from death to life.
The powers of the living waters are baptism for the flesh to be able to become again alive from the spirit manifestation for the body becoming from sacrifice through penance forgiven inone Holy Spirit, family one God in being to me.