evidence shows it was just a pole . those three men that died way back in 33 CE died on a pole ,no cross bar where the arms were stretched out left and right . in fact hung by the hands from up over their heads. they only were able to live as long as they did because their feet were nailed to the pole so that they could lift them selves up to breathe . had it not been for the nails in the feet all three would of died in less than 2 hours . hang a man on a cross as its so often pictured ,the men live for 3- days . those three men had to be dead and buried that very day , when found still living after a prescribed amount of time the legâs would be broken . by braking the legs the one hung up would then have a very short time to live , minuets.! was there a crossbar ?? if there was it was near the bottom perhaps 3-4 feet from the of the pole to be used as a standing aid .
I would assume that you were a jehovahs witness pushing there distorted and false theology.
how were the dead bodies taken down ?
did you happen to notice the Bible does not say how it was done. it does not even say how it was stood up . have you ever stood a pole ? I have , a bunch of them . granted I never stood a pole with a man nailed to one . yet I know what happens when weight is on one side of a pole when men try to stand it
So we donât know how they got the person onto a cross. Getting them off would have been a matter of levering the arms/legs off the nails, untying any ropes used to hold them up and letting the body fall.
They were not people the romans treated with respect, so what ever worked would have done.
What evidence?
I think I would ask a couple questions if you were to tell me that Jesus didnât die on a cross. Like, whatâs your motive for being here, friend? Seems odd that you would predict that everyone will hate you in your very first post. Also, why did you pick âlocustâ for your name? That seems especially odd, given the extremely negative biblical symbolism. Was âserpentâ already taken?
Reminds me of CS Lewis and Screwtape and Wormwood.
So then the measure of your purpose is, do you post anything that is true, and do you post anything that is false?
Howâs that going?
I find that difficult to believe. We know from Psalm 22 that His hands and His feet were pierced. If there was no cross bar, then what were His hands nailed to? Even so, millions of Christians throughout the ages have believed Jesus died on a cross. It was also a Roman method of execution, although they were not the first to use it.
And does it matter? Jesus died in our place for the sins we are unable to atone for. That was done and accomplished by Him whether it was a cross or a pole. However, it was a cross.
had i not spent meany years building pole barns with the occasional whoops of having to pull a pole because it had been put in the wrong place would i understand . it was when we discovered how to pull a pole ,by hand, did i then understand how to control the standing process of a pole with a man size weight on one side of the pole .
as i have every reason to believe the Romans of that time were as cleaver as i am, doing the same thing, standing a pole by brute strength of a few men . the cross bar near the bottom of the pole ,about 4 feet from the bottom of the pole ,takes a great deal of the fight out of the process .
Jesus would of been laid onto the pole ,hand/arms pulled toward the top of the pole . then a nail through each hand .then the same wiith the legs/feet a nail through each foot ,likely through the side of the foot. a total of 4 nails used.
how to get the body down ?? you pull the pole up out of the hole it was stood and dropped into to lay it down to then remove the body.
you may of noticed i did in the description put a cross bar onto the pole . its just not where todays religion puts it . we need to remember those 3 men had to be dead and buried before sundown .the bible does speak of the time the soldiers went to brake the legs of the 3 but found Jesus had already died. braking the legs brings a quick death to the one hung up .
when a man is hung on a cross it can literally take days for him to die .the whole purpose of that was to extend the length of the torturing to death.
If the cross bar was near their feet, what were His hands nailed to? Maybe I misunderstand you.
you likely from the days you were still in diapers , you were told that Jesus died on a cross . i understand that so was i . that does not make it true . Today we have forensic science with that its know how and why things happen . hanging a man on a pole or hanging a man on a cross ultimately give the same results ,that being death of the one hung up. the difference is the amount of time it takes for the man to die.
results
put you hands up above your head as if you were hanging from a bar gives a good description .
Ok. That changes things. You had the cross bar as something they were standing on. So visually, I can see it, but I donât necessarily believe it. I will stick with the traditional cross of Christ. The Bible uses the word cross and not pole. âTake up your cross and follow meâ and it was Simon of Cyrene who carried Jesusâ cross. For me itâs not that important, but its a thought provoking subject and I thank you for that.
perhaps we could dive into the ââwhat does it matterââ part . to get a dead body down you would not use ladders ,ladders would be the hardest way . it would be far easier to lift it up ,to then lay it down to then remove the nails
like me you have a craving for knowledge . how was it done ? how does it work? why was it done that way ?
you may of noticed in the description of the device he was hung on, the cross bar was nearer the bottom of the pole . I put the crossbar 4 foot from the bottom of the pole . when the pole is put into the hole the crossbar would be a few inches off the ground . the knees would be about 4 feet up from the ground. why? but to make it easier to brake the legs.
so to carry a cross would still be a good description
and then thereâs another problem .how to pull the nails . the nails are nothing like what we have and use today .we think nothing of using a tool made to first start the removal by getting the head above the surface, then another to finish its removal . how was it done back then ?? i have a thought that maybe instead of pulling the nail the nail was broken off by bending the nail one way then back the other way and over again till it broke off . nails were not made of steel but of iron .
What gives you and your fellow JWs, is the images of crucifixion drawn as graphite in Roman times. These images show a T shaped cross, not a pole.
Someone who lived when crucifixion was a current event and drew a cross is more accurate than 21st centaury speculation.
investigate for your self @ Ancient Crucifixion Images - Biblical Archaeology Society
I guess I would start here.
âFor the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.â 1 Corinthians 1:18
Jesus never said, Take up your pole. He said this.
âAnd calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, âIf anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.â Mark 8:34
As for this?
That was their whole point. The whole reason for hanging them on the cross.
âThe Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was a high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.â John 19:31-34
They seemed surprised that He was dead already. Since we know that He told the thief this.
âAnd Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.â Luke 23:43
He simply brought him with Him. We are not told if the other thief was alive or not because it really does not matter.
So are you saying @anon20701957 that you do not believe in the resurrection?
Peter
ah ,you should of noted i did say there is a cross bar, its just not were youââwant ââto find it. iâm saying the cross you using is upside down . if its used either way , it would be carried the same way . with the cross bar nearer the bottom its much easier to stand . much easier to take down .
You do believe in the resurrection of Christ Jesus, right @anon20701957 ?
J.