What Would Martin Luther Say to “Free Will”?

Theology
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@Johann

Bro @Johann

I am not claiming to “be aligned” with any school of thought or college (I mean a “collegium”, a body of colleagues, not a school of higher education) of men. Most of them I am far too ignorant to understand. I have never read Steven M. Duncan, and I am unfamiliar with his work. I do not know if these men are posessed by the Spirit of God, so I’m not really sure where my ideas might align with theirs. If we are indwelt with the same Spirit, I assume we mostly agree.

I do think you phrased it well, that human choosing is real, but it is never actually autonomous. Our choices are genuine, yet everything occurs within God’s sovereign governance. I think men exercize their will unaware of the unseen forces compelling them, so it always feels “free” to the individual. This is not only OK, it is a precise design feature, and we really have no calling to disabuse them of the experience. Our calling is to testify of the Good news, and not to persuade other men of ideas that only make sense in Glory.

Keep testifying to the hope that is within you.
KP

365

@KPuff

My desire from the outset was to have a discussion on free will. As you may have noticed, however, the conversation quickly became a broad critique of Calvinism and anything “Reformed,” and then shifted into a debate on Romans rather than staying with the original topic.

Since you’ve deliberately avoided attaching yourself to a particular theological camp, let me ask you a question directly, without labels.

What is your understanding of the relationship between faith and regeneration? Do you believe regeneration precedes faith, that faith precedes regeneration, or do you see them as occurring together as part of the same saving event, without one being temporally prior to the other? In other words, do you view them as distinguishable logically, yet inseparable in experience, perhaps even as an aorist moment from the believer’s perspective?

I’m not asking what Calvin, Arminius, or anyone else taught. I’m interested in what you believe the Scriptures themselves teach, and which passages have led you to that conclusion.

Shalom brother.

J.

366

Thanks for the grace and brotherly spirit in which you wrote this response. I really appreciate the distinction you made between the act of choosing and its downstream outcomes, as well as the perspective “above the maze.”

Where my mind still presses in on the “two bags” metaphor is the nature of the choice itself. If the fallen heart is hard-coded to pick the toxic blue bag 100% of the time, it raises fascinating questions about the relationship between divine design, human responsibility, and how grace operates—whether grace enables a genuinely free response or directly determines the choice.

That said, I agree completely with your point: a public comment section isn’t the best arena to do justice to questions of this depth. I also share your commitment to testifying to the eternal perspective of Christ above winning a debate.

I wish I could take you up on that coffee. I’d genuinely welcome sitting down to talk through this, prayer, and whatever else comes up, one bag at a time. Appreciate you, brother! May God always be with you.
Peter

367

I actually disagree, brother, not because I’m trying to be argumentative, but because, in my experience, the forum is primarily devotional and testimonial in its focus. Deeper theological discussions on a public forum often seem to be discouraged or quickly dismissed.

There’s also the challenge of reading comprehension, along with a variety of other distractions that make sustained engagement with Scripture difficult. As a result, careful discussions about our Lord’s sovereignty and thoughtful biblical exegesis often don’t receive the attention they deserve.

My 2 cents.

J.

368

@Johann

Your “desire from the outset .. to have a discussion on free will” is noble. Like you, I am always amazed how quickly a discussion like this can degrade into fleshly debate. I understand the proclivity for contentions to arise; we do know they derive from the flesh (Gal. 5:20); we are taught that:

“the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that we often do not do the things that we wish. "(Gal. 5:17)

I appreciate your grace in allowing me to express my new nature, not in debate, and not as an affiliate of an association, or colleague in a certain college, but by simply being a bondservant to the truth; accepting me as a son of God, brother to the redeemed, growing branch of The Vine, and not as a branded member of a sect.

To address your question directly,

As I absorb The Word of God, there arise many scriptures that all point in the same direction as this one:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. (Ephesians 2:1-3)

“You He made alive” explains that process initiates with God Himself. “who were dead in trespasses and sins” explains on whom God initiated His work, “on the dead”. Dead men do not “initiate” anything, and dead men do not actually “make godly decisions”, they still “walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit of disobedience”. If God were to simply tell these dead souls to “choose life”, their “spirit of disobedience” would surely cause them to disobey and continue to choose death. This is why I say the gift of “free will” God gave to mankind became infected with sin (sinfected), and will subsequently always disobey, will always choose death, will always choose the toxic bag.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk (testify) in them. (Ephesians 2:4-10)

The Mercy of God moved in Godly Grace to implant the gift of faith in His elect allowing them to “choose” righteously. Faith is taking God at His Word, and faith is also a gift. Faith is a gift that allows a dead human to take God at His word, the gift of faith allows each of us to “take up our bed and walk”, to choose life. Grace working through God’s gift of faith opens the door for us to choose righteously. The promise of life behind the door makes that choice a “no-brainer” for a dead person. When given the ability to choose righteously, and then offered the gift of life from the dead, no one turns it down.

I understand this is not the experience many would attest to; many people testify to their wise decision to “give their heart to Jesus”. They “walked the isle” because they weighed the options logically, and then chose to be a disciple of their own free will. They speak of their salvation like “joining a church”. “I decided to join”, “they should be happy to have me”, and “I can leave any time I want”. Once this experience is defined in their mind, they begin to read the scriptures through this lens and accept that being saved is a tenuous condition that can be walked away from like leaving a church because things aren’t going their way. This leads to the entitlement that those who are still in the church should spend their lives trying to entice them to stay. Of course, this example is not universal; there are many scenarios; many trunks off this same corrupt root. I’m not here to speak of those.

To answer your question chronologically, God created mankind as His prized creation, and gave him a free will to walk in willing fellowship with Him. That free will was employed wrongly, infected him with sin, bringing about man’s death which spread to the entire human race. That “sinfection” made choosing righteously impossible due to the destructive spirit of disobedience (rebellion). God saves the human race, a remnant, by raising a testimony of Himself through his prized creation. He does this by giving some persons, persons of His righteous choosing, His precious gift of faith. Faith opens their spiritual eyes, heals their spiritual lameness, casts out their spiritual demons, raises them from spirital death, births them with eternal life from above. This faith compels the person to not only choose life (continuously), but to demonstrate it though obedience (baptisim) and walk in it, even in temporal suffering, as a testimony to the Lifegiver. The walk of faith stands testimonially against the destructive disobedience of dead flesh.

As I said, many scriptures bear this out, (I;m sure you know them all) but I believe my allotted space does not allow further examples.

In Jesus

KP

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369

Thank you for a thorough, biblical answer and exegesis, brother. And yes, the proclivity for fleshly arguments is indeed a thorn in the flesh. I am 100% in agreement with you.

Keep on shining the Light of Christ Jesus.

J.

370

Thanx @Johann
I didn’t mention this final part of the redemption process, because it is a bit off-topic. It speaks to God’s rationale, so I’ll briefly mention it here for any readers edification (if I may).

  • God made us alive together with Christ
  • and God raised us up together*,
  • and God made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

WHY?

…that in the ages to come
He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness
toward us in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 2:4-10)

This is so plain in any language that it requires little exegesis.

We so often think of our personal benefits, how we profit from our new-birth, and surely those benefits are manifold. We regularly preach about our benefits, we sing our choruses and pop-songs that speak of our benefits, we write books about out benefits, but (in my circles anyway) we too often neglect to acknowledge God’s stated rationale; His own glory.

your faith is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him." (Isaiah 43:7)

Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another. (Isaiah 48:10-11)

Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

Yes, we are made alive from the dead, and yes, we are raised to newness of life, and yes, we have been made to sit in heavenly places, but before I can think that there must have been something in me that pleased God enough to choose me, we learn we are actually His eternal demonstrations of His RICH grace. It is actually our absolute unworthiness that makes us such great examples of His unmatched grace and testifies the loudest of His Glory.

For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. (1 Corinthians 1:26-29)

Now, on-topic:
Any hint of this dead creature, I call “me”, thinking I am worthy of being raised from the dead must detract from the very demonstration of His Glory that God is producing through me. The smallest scintilla of a suggestion that I may have possessed the wherewithal to choose Life in God mars and degrades this eternal demonstration of His grace. If my salvation has any slight odor of some sort of agreement between God and I, the demonstration of His grace is diminished.

Thoughts for the pot.
KP

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…to you and family Achi.

J.

372

This is a clear misreading of scripture, my brother. Ephesians 2:8 points more directly toward the whole work of salvation by grace through faith as the unearned gift of God, designed specifically “so that no one may boast.”

Cross-references often cited are Philippians 1:29 and Acts 18:27:

Both Philippians 1:29 and Acts 18:27 are central texts in New Testament discussions regarding the origin of faith. While Ephesians 2:8–9 faces grammatical debates over pronoun antecedents {τοῦτο} vs. {πίστεως}, these two passages feature clear, direct syntax.

" For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake," Philippians 1:29

Greek Syntax {ὅτι ὑμῖν ἐχαρίσθη τὸ ὑπὲρ Χριστοῦ, οὐ μόνον τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ πάσχειν…}

The Key Verb ({ἐχαρίσθη} / echaristhē): This is an aorist passive indicative verb from {χαρίζομαι}(charizomai), whose root-level means “to give freely,” “to bestow as a favor,” or “to grant as a grace.” The passive voice indicates that God is the implied agent performing the granting.

Paul constructs a clear parallel using two articular infinitives governed by the single passive verb {ἐχαρίσθη} {τὸ εἰς αὐτὸν πιστεύειν} (“the believing in Him”) {τὸ ὑπὲρ αὐτοῦ πάσχειν} (“the suffering for Him”). Does it teach that faith is a gift? Yes, in terms of Divine Bestowal.

The grammatical structure places both “believing” and “suffering” under the direct action of {ἐχαρίσθη} (granted/given as grace). Paul explicitly affirms that the capacity, privilege, or opportunity to put trust in Christ is something given to believers by God, not something originated independently of God’s initiative. Paul is writing to a persecuted church in Philippi. His primary aim is to comfort them by framing their suffering as a high privilege granted by God, just as their faith was a privilege granted by God.

" And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed," Acts 18:27

Greek Syntax ({NA28}) {…πολὺ συνεβάλετο τοῖς πεπιστευκόσιν διὰ τῆς χάριτος·}

Unlike Philippians 1:29, Acts 18:27 contains a word-order ambiguity that affects how the phrase {διὰ τῆς χάριτος} (“through grace”) modifies the sentence. The phrase sits between the verb “helped” ({συνεβάλετο}) and the participle “had believed” ({πεπιστευκόσιν}). This leads to two possible syntax pairings:

Option A: Modifying “Believed” ({πεπιστευκόσιν διὰ τῆς χάριτος} Translation: “…he greatly helped those who, through grace, had believed.” Meaning: Grace is the instrumental means by which the believers exercised faith. God’s grace was the direct source or enabling power that brought about their act of believing. Support: Represented by the ESV, NASB, NIV, and CSB. In Luke’s theology in Acts, faith and salvation frequently originate from God’s initiative Acts 13:48, “as many as were appointed to eternal life believed”; Acts 16:14, “The Lord opened her heart to pay attention”.

Option B: Modifying “Helped” ({συνεβάλετο… διὰ τῆς χάριτος})Translation: "…he, through grace, greatly helped those who had believed."Meaning: Apollos’s ministry of helping the believers was accomplished “through grace,” or Apollos was a gracious help to those who already believed. Support: Favored by some historical commentators (e.g., John Wesley) and translations like the KJV marginal notes. Under this reading, “through grace” describes Apollos’s fruitful work or divine empowerment in ministry rather than the source of the believers’ initial faith.

I’m sorry, but I see there is no other option; we must have a choice, or it is not true love. God is not just. His Judgement will be flawed.
Peter

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373

@PeterC
Σε καταλαβαίνω.
Σ’ ευχαριστώ για το μάθημα ελληνικών. Καταλαβαίνεις και μιλάς άπταιστα ελληνικά; Εγώ όχι.
Το Άγιο Πνεύμα με διδάσκει χρησιμοποιώντας την αγγλική γλώσσα.

I hear you. I sincerely understand your point of view.

KP

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374

When will we reach unity among the brethren?

----- (I asked the following question from a Greek and Hebrew professor:
"In this verse, to what does the word “that” refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and “Faith” is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However “Grace” is also feminine as is “Salvation”.‘’

His reply was:

"Here you ask a wonderful theological/exegetical question to which I can only give an opinion, and not a definitive answer. The problem is that there is NO precise referent. Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely. However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are “nor of yourselves,” and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe . In which regard the whole theological issue of “regeneration preceding faith” comes into play. So, that is basically my opinion, though others obviously disagree strenuously, but from an exegetical standpoint, the other positions have to explain away the matter of the tautology.‘’

Whether you accept the reply or not, it is sufficient to show that the Greek is not as definitive in this verse as some scholars would have you believe.

I wholeheartedly concur with @KPuff The Imperative is DEI “repent and believe”…not as you have written to me Peter…“Repent, Believe AND Choose…”

Have a blessed day in Messiah.

J.

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Nicely done. No sealing of the Ruach, no belonging to Messiah Yeshua.

John 14:26 (ESV)

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.”

1 Corinthians 2:12–13 (ESV)

“Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.”

1 John 2:27 (ESV)

“But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.”

J.

377

έρω ότι δεν είσαι εσύ, αδελφέ.

J.

379

Αναφερόμουν στον Πέτρο, αδελφέ. Ζητώ συγγνώμη για την παρεξήγηση.
Είναι πολύ εύκολο να αλλάξεις το πληκτρολόγιό σου ώστε να γράφεις στα ελληνικά, αδελφέ.

J.

380

That’s a good point @Johann. Thanx for the reminder

I personally prefer to leave Greek explanations to those who are fluent in it. I am convinced if “I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle? (1 Corinthians 14:6-8). Therefore, I personally ply The Gospel in my native language. But that’s just me.

KP

381

Context.

1Co 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching?
1Co 14:7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played?
1Co 14:8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?
1Co 14:9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.
1Co 14:10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning,
1Co 14:11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me.
1Co 14:12 So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
1Co 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
1Co 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
1Co 14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1Co 14:20 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature.
1Co 14:21 In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”
1Co 14:22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?
1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
1Co 14:25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.

I was merely being a little playful, brother, but it did lead to something of a eureka moment for me. My brother and I here in South Africa regularly study the Scriptures together, giving careful attention to the Greek and Hebrew text, as well as the grammatical and syntactical details.

In my experience, however, this forum is not particularly suited to that kind of exegetical discussion.

The fact that I study Greek and Hebrew certainly does not make me a scholar, God forbid. It simply reflects my desire to handle the Scriptures as carefully and faithfully as I can, always recognizing that I remain a student of God’s Word.

My desire is for unity and peace among believers, and I genuinely hope to continue learning from others through these discussions.

As you have observed yourself, there is a remarkable diversity of interpretations regarding Romans and the question of free will. That reality alone reminds us of the importance of approaching these discussions with humility and charity.

On your particular point, however, I am in full agreement with you KP.

Stay strong eis Messiah.

J.

382

I have never doubted this.
Thanx for the testimony.

KP

383

Plus Eph 2:8 by Calvin’s own words clearly articulates that the faith itself is not the gift.

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384

You’re welcome, and no, I do not speak or understand Greek as well as I wish. Working on it though. It is interesting to learn the language along with Hebrew and Aramaic. Yes, make no mistake about it, although I do find other languages and cultures fascinating and beneficial on a personal level, I also agree that the Word of God is for all.

You do not have to know or be able to dissect every word in the original language to fully receive what God has for you. That is where the Holy Spirit comes in, or we would be back to Scribes and Pharisees again, with the common folks knowing nothing.

We know that the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword, able to penetrate the soul and spirit, discern thoughts and intentions, and reveal the innermost desires of the heart (Hebrews 4:12)

God’s Word has the power to transform lives. It heals, encourages, and strengthens believers, providing wisdom and moral guidance (Psalm 119:105; 2 Timothy 3:16)

By meditating on Scripture, individuals can grow spiritually, develop righteousness, and align their lives with God’s will. The Word also serves as a foundation, like a rock, upon which one can build a stable and resilient life (Matthew 7:24)

From creation to daily life, God’s Word demonstrates creative and sustaining power. In Genesis, God spoke the universe into existence, and Psalm 33:6 affirms that the heavens and stars were made by His Word

Christ sustains all things by His powerful Word, showing that it is both a source of life and a sustaining force in the world. Faith comes through hearing God’s Word, and it is the primary means by which individuals receive salvation (Romans 10:17; James 1:21)

The Word equips believers for every good work, instructing, correcting, and training them in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It also serves as a spiritual weapon in the believer’s life, providing protection and strength against challenges and spiritual opposition (Ephesians 6:17)

Finally, God’s Word offers endurance and hope, sustaining believers through trials and uncertainties. Its promises provide comfort, assurance, and guidance, helping believers navigate life with faith and confidence (Romans 15:4)
.
In summary, the Word of God is powerful, alive, and transformative, serving as a guide, protector, and source of spiritual strength for all who embrace it. By engaging with Scripture, believers experience its life-changing effects and grow in faith, wisdom, and righteousness. None of this would be possible if no one were able to read or understand it.

God bless my brother.
Peter

385

Actually? While you claim the professor’s view proves your point, standard Greek syntax offers a much clearer, widely accepted explanation that does not require forcing touto to refer strictly to “faith”:

In Koine Greek, when a demonstrative pronoun (touto) is neuter singular, it very commonly refers back to an entire preceding clause or idea, rather than a single noun.

Virtually all major standard Greek grammarians (such as Daniel Wallace, A.T. Robertson, and Gordon Fee) agree that touto refers to the whole event/concept of salvation by grace through faith. Salvation as a whole state, grace, faith, and deliverance combined, is the gift of God.

We might see the mechanics of human response and divine initiation slightly differently. Still, we both agree that salvation is ultimately a gift of God’s grace and not something we can boast about. Appreciate the thoughts, and I hope you have a blessed day as well."
Peter