Bruce_Leiter,
You have a question directed to you in post #60.
Strictly speaking, none of the Law is obsolete. The Law was not abolished but fulfilled in Christ. The sacrifices, rituals, and ordinances reach their completion in Him, and the moral heart of the Law is written on our hearts by the Spirit. Thus, the Law remains, but transformed and transfigured in Christ.
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The external forms of the Old Testament or covenant have been nailed to the cross, as Paul shows us in Colossians 2:13-17, including the Sabbath day on Saturday:
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
The early church has changed the day of worship and rest, two main ideas of the law, to Sunday to celebrate Jesus’ resurrection, as they have every right to do in the new covenant that Jesus instituted with the Lord’s Supper replacing Passover (Luke 22:20):
Luk 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
The main ideas of rest and worship on one day in seven are embedded in that commandment; but the outer forms are gone, including the death penalty for disobeying it, which is in the trappings elsewhere.
Bruce_Leiter
re: “The external forms of the Old Testament or covenant have been nailed to the cross, as Paul shows us in Colossians 2:13-17, including the Sabbath day on Saturday:”
Even assuming that what was nailed to the cross in verse 14 were the Then Commandments and not the record of our debts (Rap Sheets) with its charges which were against us for disobeying the commandments, nothing is said there regarding a requirement to pick any day of the week and to rest on it.
Nor do any of the other verses that you quoted say that.
My question was, “Where does scripture say that a day of the week is required for rest, and that it doesn’t have to be on any specific day?” I don’t see where your post provides any such scripture.
re: “The main ideas of rest and worship on one day in seven are embedded in that commandment…”
And that day is specified as the seventh day of the week.
If we have to obey the seventh day for the Sabbath, @rstrats, then we must also obey bloody animal sacrifices, the Passover and the other feast days, the food laws, circumcision, the various death penalties, and other things specified in God’s old-covenant laws. Jesus has abrogated the external forms of the old-covenant laws with his death (the old wineskins) and enabled us to fulfill the new covenant with his resurrection (the new wineskins).
He shows us that truth already in the Sermon on the Mount when he says that not only murder and adultery are wrong, but also selfish anger and lust are also principles from the old covenant that must be overcome in the new covenant.
The same is true when he says that he is the Lord of the Sabbath. The early church in following Jesus change the day of the Sabbath to Sunday to celebrate his resurrection, because the external form has been abolished, but the need for Christians to gather together for worship is attested to in Hebrews 10:24-25, and we do it at least once a week to build up our faith:
Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.”
Mat 12:3 He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him:
Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless?
Mat 12:6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here.
Mat 12:7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”
David broke one of the external laws of the old covenant for a deeper principle of the law, that is, love to supply human need. It’s that deeper principle that carries over to the new covenant.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Heb 10:25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Your demand for me to provide a text is not correct, because this interpretation requires many texts together to demonstrate it and is not the kind of presentation suitable for a forum. I’ll have to write a book about it. In fact, I think that I will expand my present book about the old and new covenant to include the Sabbath! Thanks for your post!
re: “Your demand for me to provide a text is not correct…”
Sure it is, because that is what I’m asking, although “demand” is a bit too strong a word. You made an assertion, and I’m simply asking if you might provide scripture to back it up.
re: “…because this interpretation requires many texts together to demonstrate it and is not the kind of presentation suitable for a forum.”
I don’t see why it’s not appropriate, but if for some reason it isn’t, maybe you shouldn’t make assertions that you can’t support within this topic.
The Apostles already settled this issue:
Acts 15
15 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”
**6 **The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. **7 **And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. **8 **And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, **9 **and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. **10 **Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? **11 **But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
**19 **Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, **20 **but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. **21 **For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
So to the gentile believers we are to follow the “law of love” and to abstain from sexual immorality, eating/drinking blood and from things strangled and polluted by idols. But even Paul says later to the Greeks and Romans, look follow your conscience on these things since the idiols are fake and who cares, but don’t make your brother stumble by your freedom.
@rstrats, I’m afraid that you skirt around the substance of my post. I ask you to answer the rest of my post, please.
Bruce_Leiter,
I don’t see where you’ve asked any questions.
@rstrats, so, the way I understand you, do you still observe Passover, the seventh day Sabbath, other feast days, and the food laws?
What about the law’s death penalties for breaking the Sabbath? If not, as I assume you don’t, why not? The death penalty was not “specifically mentioned as being changed.” Do you see what I’m getting at? The national, outward form of the laws for Israel, the old covenant, was nailed to the cross, while the inner ideas or principles of that law are carried on for the international church in the new covenant.
For example, the clean and unclean foods were meant to show us the principle that we have to replace the immoral uncleanness in us with the moral cleanness through Jesus’ resurrection. Now, the actual eating of certain foods and not eating of others no longer apply. Paul makes that point:
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
According to the Bible, God said to rest on the
seventh day of the week, also known as the Sabbath. This is based on the creation narrative in Genesis, where God rested after six days of creation, and is reiterated in the Ten Commandments.
Based on the modern Gregorian calendar, the seventh day of the week is Saturday. In the biblical Hebrew tradition, the Sabbath begins at sunset on Friday and ends at sunset on Saturday.
Key scriptural references for the Sabbath include:
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Genesis 2:2–3: “And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it…”.
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Exodus 20:8–11: In the Ten Commandments, God instructs: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God…”.
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It’s seams pretty clear to me today, of whom said it, and of the day. Saturday is the seventh day. So if God is the one who said it, can man change it? How sure can any of us be, to think we have a THE understanding of what is being said by a people in the 1st century, over 2000 years ago? Is any of us, including myself an authority of the scriptures or are we just subject to the understandings and interpretations of others, through our 21st century eyes of understanding??
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For every one of us, this is a walk of faith, each of us is at a different level of understanding. That alone should be enough to humble us.
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What I understood a couple of years ago has become even clearer two years later. And if that be the case, who am I to say, I’ve got the full understanding even today!!
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What I have experienced, is that God appears to give you as much as you can handle at that time and in time continues to provide you with more.
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So while we debate issues, we can most certainly share what we know today, but we should most certainly keep an open ear for what we can learn tomorrow.
Jesus, our Savior died to pay the sin penalty, which is death on our behalf. We are free from the penalty of death for our sins because of Jesus Christ. Our salvation is in him and him alone.
@rstrats, it’s not any specific passage, but the tenor and analysis of many passages that lead us to the conclusion that the forms of old-covenant laws have been replaced by new-covenant forms, for example, the Passover meal replaced with Communion, baptism replacing circumcision, the food laws with the need to pray for cleansing from uncleanness in our lives, and the outward form of the Sabbath with the principles of one day in seven on which we worship and rest. There are so many that I am now writing a Bible survey on the old and new covenant; it will be a long one.
What difference does it make what you name the seventh day of the week - it’s still the seventh day of the week. And what does it matter if it’s the Gregorian calendar or not?
@Steppingstone, by my calendar, Jesus established the new form of the covenant and rose on the first day of the week. Thus, I celebrate his permanent resurrection and look forward to mine on Sunday,
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Genesis 2:2–3: “And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it…”.
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Exodus 20:8–11: In the Ten Commandments, God instructs: “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God…”.
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Fourth century and after: The shift from Saturday to Sunday worship as the dominant practice for most Christians began around the second century and was heavily influenced by Roman political and cultural factors. In 321 CE, Roman Emperor Constantine the Great issued a civil decree making Sunday a day of rest, which further solidified the custom among Christians.
A Roman historian named Cassius Dio who wrote about Roman History: Cassius wrote that the Romans who learned that the Jews rested on the Days of Saturn (Saturday which was known as Saturn’s Day in Rome), attacked the Jerusalem stronghold on those days
These words also tally with the writings of Josephus, showing us that Saturn’s Day in Rome coincided with the day kept as the Sabbath by the Jews, even in the 1st Century BC.
A Roman Soldier named Frontinus in his book named Strategems writes the account of the destruction of the 2nd temple in Jerusalem in 70AD, saying “The divine Vespasian attacked the Jews on the days of Saturn, on which it is forbidden for them to do anything serious, and prevailed.” Similar to the words of the historian Cassius Dio, this Roman soldier equated the day of rest (Sabbath) of the Jews to the Day of Saturn (Saturday which was known as Saturn’s Day in Rome). This account of Vespasian (also known as Titus) attacking Jerusalem on Sabbath days, tallies with the account seen in the Historical works of Josephus as well.
- Council of Laodicea: In approximately 364 AD, the Council of Laodicea issued a formal ecclesiastical ruling (Canon 29) that forbade Christians from resting on the Sabbath (Saturday) and instead instructed them to honor the Lord’s Day (Sunday).
The Council of Laodicea was a regional Christian synod held in Phrygia (modern-day Turkey) around 363–364 AD, which issued 60 canons (rulings) to regulate church conduct, worship, and practice. Key decisions included listing canonical books for church reading, though this list varied from later accepted canons by omitting Revelation and including some apocryphal books. The council also forbade the observance of the seventh-day Sabbath, attempting to mandate Sunday rest, and prohibited Christians from associating with heretics.
It appears that some history shows an unbiblical influence upon the early Christians with the intent to change the seventh day Saturday, Sabbath to a Sunday
I don’t have a steak in the game, just providing information, fruit for thought.
I don’t care what day you choose to celebrate a rest day or a worship day. Makes no difference to me.
Steppingstone,
I’m not sure why you quoted me and then talked about something else.
Bruce_Leiter,
re: “…it’s not any specific passage…”
OK, thanks. I thought that maybe you had a specific scripture in mind.
That can be correct in the literal sense, that the word Saturday isn’t specifically stated in the word of God. But historically, there is evidence depicting Saturday as the Sabbath day of rest, which can be seen “briefly” provided in an earlier post.
I can’t specifically find in God‘s word, that gentile believers in Jesus are commanded to rest on the seventh day, but, also can’t find in the word of God, stating we shouldn’t ! Usually in cases where it’s somewhat vague, making it challenging to take a stance with absolute certainty, one way or the other. I choose to lean towards caution. Although, I can most definitely see a benefit in choosing to obey God through faith, separate from any legalistic observance.
Several scriptures state God’s blessings.
Genesis 2:1–3
This passage describes the end of the six days of creation, with God sanctifying the seventh day: That the heavens and the earth were completed, and on the seventh day, God finished his work and rested. He blessed the seventh day and made it holy because it was the day He rested from creation
Exodus 20:8-11
In this passage, part of the Ten Commandments, connects the blessing and holiness of the Sabbath to God’s own rest after creation. Exodus 20:11 (NIV) states: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.”
Do all things for God’s glory: The ultimate limit is whether an action glorifies God. In 1 Corinthians 10:31, Paul provides a conclusive principle: “So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God”. This places a high standard on all our choices, including how we exercise freedom.