I thought God loves us.
Well, @Pater15, I would point you to Hebrews 12:6-13. Godās love is both tender love, which I think your statement refers to, and tough love that disciplines true believers to enable them to grow by the power of Jesusā resurrection. I personally can testify to my 82 years of Godās loveāboth kinds. See the book What God Has Done: My True, Dramatic God-Biography for a book-full of examples.
Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
Heb 12:11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Heb 12:12 Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees,
Heb 12:13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.
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Permit me to add this @Bruce_Leiter since most are shunning this.
Romans 5:3ā5
āNot only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.ā
The word for sufferings is ĪøĪ»įæĻĪ¹Ļ (thlipsis), meaning pressure, affliction, crushing. Paulās point is that affliction is not wasted; it is the Spiritās forge that produces steadfast hope in Christ.
Romans 8:17ā18
āWe are heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him. For I consider that the sufferings (ĻĪ±ĪøĪ®Ī¼Ī±ĻĪ±, pathÄmata, āexperiences of pain or passionā) of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.ā
Here Paul frames suffering as the path to shared glory. The Hebrew background idea is ×ÖøÖ¼××Ö¹× (kavod, āweight, gloryā), pointing to the eternal weight of glory outweighing present affliction.
Romans 12:12
āRejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation (ĪøĪ»įæĻĪ¹Ļ, thlipsis), be constant in prayer.ā
Paul roots the believerās response to affliction in joy, patience, and prayer.
2 Corinthians 1:5ā7
āFor as we share abundantly in Christās sufferings (ĻĪ±ĪøĪ®Ī¼Ī±ĻĪ±, pathÄmata), so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too.ā
Paul anchors suffering in union with Christ. The comfort (ĻĪ±ĻĪ¬ĪŗĪ»Ī·ĻĪ¹Ļ, paraklÄsis) is Godās strengthening presence.
2 Corinthians 4:8ā10
āWe are afflicted (ĪøĪ»Ī¹Ī²ĻĪ¼ĪµĪ½ĪæĪ¹, thlibomenoi, āpressed, squeezedā) in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted (Ī“Ī¹ĻĪŗĻĪ¼ĪµĪ½ĪæĪ¹, diÅkomenoi), but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed, always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.ā
Paul describes suffering as the mark of carrying Christās death in the body, with the purpose of manifesting His resurrection life.
2 Corinthians 4:17
āFor this light momentary affliction (ĪøĪ»įæĻĪ¹Ļ, thlipsis) is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory (Hebrew kavod) beyond all comparison.ā
Here Paul contrasts temporary suffering with eternal glory, tying it to Isaiahās promise of Godās everlasting redemption.
2 Corinthians 6:4ā5
āAs servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: by great endurance, in afflictions (ĪøĪ»ĪÆĻĪµĻĪ¹Ī½, thlipsesin), hardships (į¼Ī½Ī¬Ī³ĪŗĪ±Ī¹Ļ, anankais, ānecessities, constraintsā), calamities, beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, sleepless nights, hunger.ā
Paul catalogs the marks of his ministry, showing suffering as validation of genuine apostleship.
2 Corinthians 11:23ā28
A long list of his personal afflictions, beatings, stonings, shipwrecks, dangers, hunger, thirst, cold, exposure. Paul boasts not in power but in weakness.
Galatians 6:17
āFrom now on let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks (ĻĻĪÆĪ³Ī¼Ī±ĻĪ±, stigmata, ābrands, scarsā) of Jesus.ā
Paulās physical scars from persecution were his seal of belonging to Christ.
Philippians 1:29ā30
āFor it has been granted (į¼ĻĪ±ĻĪÆĻĪøĪ·, echaristhÄ, āgracedā) to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in Him but also suffer (ĻĪ¬ĻĻĪµĪ¹Ī½, paschein) for His sake, engaged in the same conflict (į¼Ī³ĻĪ½, agÅn, āstruggle, contestā) that you saw I had and now hear that I still have.ā
Paul calls suffering a grace, a divine gift for believers.
Philippians 3:10
āThat I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and may share His sufferings (ĻĪ±ĪøĪ·Ī¼Ī¬ĻĻĪ½, pathÄmatÅn), becoming like Him in His death.ā
Union with Christ is inseparable from sharing His sufferings, leading to resurrection life.
Colossians 1:24
āNow I rejoice in my sufferings (ĻĪ±ĪøĪ®Ī¼Ī±ĻĪ¹Ī½, pathÄmasin) for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christās afflictions (ĪøĪ»ĪÆĻĪµĻĪ¹Ī½, thlipsesin) for the sake of His body, that is, the church.ā
Paul views his afflictions as an extension of Christās sufferings in service of the church.
1 Thessalonians 3:3ā4
āThat no one be moved by these afflictions (ĪøĪ»ĪÆĻĪµĻĪ¹Ī½, thlipsesin). For you yourselves know that we are destined (ĪŗĪµįæĪ¼Ī±Ī¹, keimai, āappointed, set in placeā) for this. For when we were with you, we kept telling you beforehand that we were to suffer affliction (ĪøĪ»ĪÆĪ²ĪµĻĪøĪ±Ī¹, thlibesthai), just as it has come to pass.ā
Suffering is not accidental but appointed in Godās plan.
2 Timothy 1:8
āDo not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share in suffering (ĻĻ
Ī³ĪŗĪ±ĪŗĪæĻĪ¬ĪøĪ·ĻĪæĪ½, synkakopathÄson, āsuffer evil togetherā) for the gospel by the power of God.ā
Paul calls Timothy to join him in hardship for the sake of the gospel.
2 Timothy 2:3
āShare in suffering (ĻĻ
Ī³ĪŗĪ±ĪŗĪæĻĪ¬ĪøĪ·ĻĪæĪ½, synkakopathÄson) as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.ā
Paul uses the imagery of a soldier enduring hardship for his commander.
2 Timothy 3:12
āIndeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted (Ī“Ī¹ĻĻĪøĪ®ĻĪæĪ½ĻĪ±Ī¹, diÅchthÄsontai).ā
Not might be, but will be. Persecution is certain for the godly.
2 Timothy 4:5
āAs for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering (ĪŗĪ±ĪŗĪæĻĪ¬ĪøĪ·ĻĪæĪ½, kakopathÄson), do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.ā
Paul exhorts Timothy to accept hardship as part of ministry faithfulness.
2 Timothy 4:6ā8
Paulās final testimony: āI am already being poured out as a drink offeringā¦ I have fought the good fight (į¼Ī³įæ¶Ī½Ī±, agÅna), I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.ā
His life itself has become a sacrifice through suffering.
Much more in response to āLife is SOOOO hardā
God bless brother.
J.
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You can add to my posts anytime, @Johann! 
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Thank God for both His tender and tough love.
Suffering as encouragement, and evidence of our sonship.
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If I can add an additional perspective, that Johann also mentioned, by your leave.
There was a group called the Pilgrims who came to America in 1620. Miles Standish was governor of the group who wrote a history - āOf Plymouth Plantationā. In short, most of them came for religious freedom, and to share the gospel with āheathensā. I think there was 102 of them, and exactly half died within a year.
As they were freezing and starving and wasting from illnesses, Iām sure they were doing a lot of praying. And a lot of painful suffering, to what must have seemed like a bitter end.
@Bruce_Leiter Some for discipline and growth. @Johann Some for identification and faith.
@ Christ - Some for glory.
When we consider Jesus Himself, praying to God His loving Father, knowing what was coming and realizing it would exceed His human capacities, that he actually prayed three times that God would spare Him if any way possible, He resolutely committed Himself to Godās will.
God watched, even as He (Jesus) was forsaken on that cross. And the entire universe watched as He breathed out His last, saying āit is finishedā.
āWherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.ā
God is glorified when any of His children stand strong under the weight of suffering. And God is pleased to give us each an opportunity to demonstrate our limits - that our limits are more than we might think. And we might even pray that God would send rescue or deliverance.
And if He chooses not to at that moment, we can be assured that He knows our limits much better than we do, that the eternal glory to be revealed to us is worth far more, and that he will receive the glory that He deserves.
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Amen, @Pater15! Yes, I can testify to such thanks, though in times of suffering, especially my major depression, I sometimes felt as if my prayers for healing were bouncing off the ceiling. It took 8 1/2 months of lamenting for God to heal me and give me his peace, when his tough love was finished for a time. You can read about that and many other answers to prayer in the book What God Has Done: My True, Dramatic God-Biography (Amazon).
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Our time here is so short! Then, eternity to enjoy.
How many of us might change a few decisions we made, or opportunities we missed? And (for me at least) itās all about the relationships that I didnāt properly appreciate.
This world entails suffering. At the very least, people whom we love pass away, and we never see them again. My earliest memory is reciting my numbers to a doting great-grandmother. Next thing I knew, she was gone.
A quick glance at the prayer list on this website reveals the suffering that people are going through at this very moment. Jesus promised He will never leave us or forsake us. Itās a mercy and comfort just to know that He Himself is well acquainted with our suffering, to a degree beyond any we can imagine.
I deserve a lot of the things that I suffer. Consequences, discipline, etc. But most of the things I suffer are not because I deserve it. God is not punishing me. Maybe, in most cases, God is not punishing you.
I think that the severity of the suffering we undergo - the vile extremity of evil - does continue to bear glorious fruit throughout our eternal existence with God, our Father. Although we are free, we know the stupidity of sin. We are well acquainted with its destruction.
Paul asked the question - ādonāt you realize that you are going to be judging angels?ā Sort of boggles the mind to interpolate from that, just what our roles in heaven might look like. Thereās no limit to Godās creativity. Billions of species of living things. Hundred of billions of galaxies all attest to that. I doubt we can comprehend all the things that God has planned for those who believe in Him.
So we should take heart and look forward. It hurts, sure as anything. It hurts a lot. As I mentioned, Iāve had my moments of face-down screaming into the carpet. But such suffering will look like itās over in a moment when it has finished. Weāll enjoy its benefit forever.
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Thank you Bruce! Just ordered your book!
@Pater15, from my personal experience, God has taught a great way to be free from the anger and anxiety that suffering causes. It is not in the western culture, but it is in the Bible. I have found two kinds of complaint in the Scriptures.
One is the complaint shown in the Israelitesā grumbling to Moses about no water or food instead of praying in faith to God for those provisions.
The other one is complaining with faith to God, the way a witness might do in court before the Judge of the universe. It is lament, which Old Testament saints like Job, especially in chapter 10; David, Psalms 6, 10, 22 (quoted by Jesus on the cross), 39, and 88 with a total of 73 Psalms at least part laments; Habakkuk; and, of course, Jeremiah (especially chapter 3).
I have experienced the personal fact that persistent laments, not just once, along with the seeking of Godās peace to accept the cause of our laments, produce Godās peace (Philippians 4:6-7):
Php 4:6 do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Clap clap clap clap clap (keep going)
@Bruce_Leiter āI have experienced the personal fact that persistent laments, not just once, along with the seeking of Godās peace to accept the cause of our laments, produce Godās peace (Philippians 4:6-7)ā
@Pater15 (aka Ulysses McGill)
Oh Brother, Where are you? The questions seems too easy, Is this a trick question?
KP
Thatās it! Iām looking for answersā¦
Iām removing my post, because, somehow in my senility, I missed reading all the previous posts. M-bad. I"ll read FIRST and comment after, like I should. Sorry if I was confusing;
KP
@Pater15.
OK, Iāve read your posts, and I think I get your question, at least partly. By ālife is hardā you mostly mean ālife entails sufferingā, and āsufferingā is an expression of unabated pain. am I close?
Here is not your answer, but here are a few germane comments (I hope)
What it means to have been ācreated in the image of Godā has not yet been fully revealed, but one thing it surely means is that we suffer. We, like Jesus, experience anguish and agony in mind and body, but even as bad as ours can get, the anguish Jesus took on himself, in his volitional condescension, privation, rejection, and crucifixion, is unmatched. āPunishment of the Holy oneā is an unspeakably harsh anguish.
We have spoken here of the unexpected benefits of suffering, and the Godly purposes of suffering, but we have not spoken of the untold suffering by those who will never know those purposes and never enjoy those benefits. Suffering without purpose is an experience reserved for the spiritually dead; a tragic human existence void of true life. @Pater15 suggests that ālife is hardā, but let us remember death is harder, because suffering of the spiritually dead is pointless, hopeless, and joyless. I have attended funerals of both the living and the dead, and while the former has an air of lightness, a difficult joy, and an expectation of promise, the later knows only loss. In both cases we survivors suffer the loss of companionship, but in the later scenario, God suffers the loss of one of His creations; the wasteful destruction of the āimago deiā.
āLife is hardā because we āfeelā. As feeling beings in a sinful environment, we are subjects of suffering, not only in physical sensations of pain, but more profoundly in deep affective sensations of pain. My Golden Retriever died of complications of old age last summer. He surely suffered in his body as he grew old, but he seemingly enjoyed every ounce of his canine life. Right up to his final day, he showed no signs of emotional suffering; no sense of unfulfilled longings, no signs of regret, no disappointment or despair. As I held him while he took his last breath, I envied his simple life of unfettered happiness. Oswald Chambers spills much ink to remind us: āThe basis of life is not reasonable, but wild and tragic, and to face things as they are brings a man to the ordeal of despairā [Baffled to Fight Better, pg 48]. Being made in the image of Love, we are capable of feeling everything from extasy to anguish, just as He does. This great gift of feeling releases great capabilities; highest highs and lowest lows. Only The God who Loves can make both into Joy.
Now abide these three: Faith, Hope, and Love, but the greatest of these is Love.
KP
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I marveled at David, who rejoiced in Godās hand pressing on him when he was being rebuked by God. Until I read that I felt I was being āpunishedā for disobedience, or being sinful. Then my perspective changed to āThank you Lord for loving me enough to rebuke and correct me, for putting me in the fire, for hammering me, changing me, shaping me into the person Iām supposed to be!ā Itās painful, confusing and frustrating most of the time, but I honestly do find joy in these times, when I stop to consider that God is actively working in me. In ME! In me? Little, insignificant me!
How could I NOT find joy in this?!
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God loves us, this I know deep within my heart, and yet I suffer. Not to boast, but to show that my faith is real. My tears are not meaningless; they are the cry of a soul longing to be with the One who gave His precious blood for me. From morning till night, I feel the weight of the worldās evil and the pain of my brothers and sisters. I yearn for someone to comfort me, because sometimes I cannot bear it alone. My thoughts falter, my strength fades, and yet I cling to faith ā the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. I think of St. Ignatius, thrown to the lions without rescue, while Daniel was saved. Both were part of a plan beyond human sight: Danielās deliverance stirred a king to rebuild Jerusalem, and Ignatiusā martyrdom turned countless hearts toward Christ.
Even Jobās agony was not without purpose. Through his suffering, God proved His wisdom and silenced the deceiverās lies before heaven itself. We cannot see how wide and far-reaching Godās plans are, not just on earth, but in the unseen realm. The fallen angels roam, making life hard for those who love God, yet even this trial is shaping us into something eternal. And so, though I do not understand, I surrender my pain into His hands. My tears, my questions, my longing ā all I place before Him. And at the end of it all, I have only one prayer left to offer: āMay the Lordās will be done.ā
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Life is hard, yesā¦but itās not meaningless. God uses even our pain to draw us closer, refine our faith, and remind us this world is not our home (2 Corinthians 4:17ā18). Keep holding on.
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When someone asks why life is so hard, Scripture does not give us soft pillows, it gives us the truth, and the truth is that following Christ will break a manās pride before it crowns him with glory. Paul does not hide his scars, he parades them as proof of Christās power in weakness. He says in 2 Corinthians 11 that he was beaten with rods, lashed five times, stoned, shipwrecked, hunted by robbers, betrayed by false brothers, hungry, thirsty, cold, and sleepless, and yet he carried on because Christ carried him. In Acts 14 he is stoned and left for dead, and the very next day he rises and keeps preaching, telling the church that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.
In Philippians 1 he tells the believers it has been granted not only to believe in Christ but also to suffer for His sake. In 1 Corinthians 4 he says the apostles were treated like the scum of the earth, reviled, slandered, persecuted, and yet they blessed and endured. In 2 Corinthians 4 he declares that they were struck down but not destroyed, always carrying about in their bodies the death of Jesus so that the life of Jesus might be seen in them.
And the apostles themselves sealed their testimony with blood. James the son of Zebedee was killed with the sword in Acts 12. Peter was crucified in Rome, Paul was beheaded under Nero, Thomas was pierced with spears in India, Andrew crucified in Achaia, Bartholomew flayed in Armenia, James the son of Alphaeus thrown from the temple, Matthew martyred in Ethiopia, Simon the Zealot killed in Persia, John exiled on Patmos and the only one to die of old age. These men did not walk an easy road, they walked a bloody road, because their Master walked to the cross first.
So when life feels crushing, remember the pattern, the cross before the crown, the suffering before the glory. Romans 8 says if we suffer with Him we will also be glorified with Him, and Paul concludes that the present sufferings are not even worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed. Hardship is not proof that God has abandoned you, it is proof that you are sharing the fellowship of Christās sufferings, and if you share the fellowship of His sufferings you will also share the triumph of His resurrection.
Shalom sorella.
J.