📖 Worrisome & Confusing Verses

Theology
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­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ :book: :thinking:

­ ­ The Bible can be quite enigmatic at times, confusing even the best of us. Take the following verses as example…

ECCLESIASTES 9:4-6 (KJV)

4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

­ ­ How do you read this? What is your take or interpretation of these three verses when you reflect on them? Is death the end of it all? Do you stop reading now and go straight to despair?

­ ­ One must watch out for isolated statements in scripture; they must be understood within the context of the whole book you are reading from, and the framework of the whole Bible. Having a general context of the chapter can help you understand it better and it is helpful to know that, while the writer does not identify themself, it is believed to be the musings of King Solomon.

Reference Note

­ ­ In the book Bible Panorama (Copyright © 2005 Day One Publications) it says…

V 4–6: DEAD He then considers the fate of the dead and concludes that it nullifies everything for everyone. Thus, ‘a living dog is better than a dead lion’. It is important to know that his vantage point is simply ‘under the sun’ and eternity is not under consideration here.

­ ­ A dead lion can no longer correct his mistakes and walk in Gods Light, but a living dog still has that chance. The writer speaks to what he has discovered about the meaninglessness of every single human endeavor without God at the center of their life.

­ ­ Reading 1:1–11 and 12:9–14 will reveal the book’s contents: a proper, God-fearing attitude toward life. The unnamed writer ends with the conclusion: fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind.

Questions:
What is your takeaway from this?
What are some other confusing verses to you?

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I think it is simply indicating that at the point of death. It is not too late. The person can not repent, or desire Good, or be saved. They know nothing until they stand before God, yet at that point, it will be too late.

As for this

“And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about [his] naked [body]; and the young men laid hold on him: And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.” Mark 14:51-52

I always wonder why? Why is this guy following around Jesus in a linen cloth? Aka Loincloth? One, that’s weird, two, was it not cold?

”Now the servants and officers had made a charcoal fire, because it was cold, and they were standing and warming themselves. Peter also was with them, standing and warming himself.” John 18:18

I have always been curious as to why this little tidbit was added.

Peter

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Matthew gives the reason for Peter following writing that “Peter was following Him at a distance as far as the courtyard of the high priest, and entered in, and sat down with the officers to see the outcome (telos - the conclusion of a process of events).” (Mt 26:58) Peter wanted to know how this would end. Apparently he still does not completely grasp that Jesus must die as the sacrificial Lamb for the sins of the world.

And he was sitting with the officers and warming himself at the fire - Jerusalem is elevated about 2500 feet above sea level and it can become cold at night in the spring. Sitting with the officers was a daring ploy in a dangerous place as he would soon discover. These officers would not have been Roman soldiers but were the “Temple police” under Jewish jurisdiction. At the fire is literally “toward the light” (fire is the word phos = light) or facing the fire. This small detail means that even though it was dark, his face would be well illuminated which would lead to discovery of his identity described in Mark 14:67. Not smart Peter! But Jesus had given the prophecy and God took care of the details (cold night, need for fire, Peter facing the fire), so that it would be fulfilled perfectly.

J.

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Hey @Johann I understand, Peter. My confusion or curiosity is the “Young man in a loincloth following Jesus around.” Why? Was he Tarzan? Kidding aside, why do you think this was added? I only mentioned Peter by the fire to illustrate that it was cold.

Peter

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I’ve never read this as a loincloth, but I’m not familiar with the original language that the Bible is written in. When I looked up the word in Blue Letter Bible, it just says a linen sheet. Many believe this man to be Mark; the author of the gospel of Mark. One thought that accounts for the reason he’s not properly dressed is that he was in a hurry. He heard about Jesus’ arrest, grabbed a sheet to cover and made his way there which wasn’t very far.

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@Bestill This makes good sense. Also, so many translations… Most will use different wording, some drastically. (ex., The Breeches Bible )

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Ecclesiastes can be a difficult book. But there are some things we can note to make it easier:

Ecclesiastes is part of the broader genre of Jewish Wisdom Literature. The most obvious example of this genre is the book of Proverbs. But also includes the book of Job. Jewish Wisdom Literature carries several themes forward. The starting point of wisdom–true wisdom–is fearing God. We can see this explicitly mentioned in the Proverbs obviously, but also again in Job where after going back and forth with his friends, Job hears God speak and God rhetorically asks, “And where were you when I made everything?” fear, honor, trusting in God that’s where wisdom begins.

Ecclesiastes gets us there too, but it does so by painting an extremely pessimistic and depressing portrait of human life. For “The Teacher” everything is pointless. When we look at our lives, our experiences, at the world around us, and if we really stop and thinking about it, it all starts to look empty and pointless, “Meaningless meaninglessness! All is meaningless!” becomes a refrain in the text. When we consider those who have died, well they’re gone, so what was the point of their life? They will be forgotten in time, their love their hate their envy, everything about them is gone now, vanished from the earth. They know nothing, can do nothing, they are no longer here to learn to act to speak, they can’t love us or show us love here–it’s all so depressing and pessimistic.

But the Teacher probably isn’t trying to make us nihilists. Rather he is trying to point out that without faith, without a life found in God, everything looks pointless. It’s the idea that we’re all out here doing everything we can to distract ourselves from the inevitability that we will one day be gone. Death doesn’t discriminate, everything dies, everything ends. And if that’s all there is, then what’s the point of it all?

We reach a conclusion at the end of the text (there is some debate about whether the ending of Ecclesiastes was appended by a later editor or not) that meaning is found in God, in what God has said and done. Life without God is nihilism; but life with God actually does mean something.

Now bring this into the larger context and broader scope of the biblical story, of God’s dealings in human history, and most importantly within the context of Jesus Christ. The world isn’t meaningless, it has meaning because there is a Good Creator who made it, and has a purpose for it, and His purposes are found in Jesus Christ who conquered death. We aren’t pointless, we bear God’s image; our lives aren’t meaningless, we are a people being shaped by God’s love and mercy and called to serve our neighbor and minister to God’s good creation. Death is not the end, Christ has triumphed over the grave. Even in bodily death the dead are not truly gone, for the Christian hears the words of Christ, “I am the Resurrection and the Life, whoever believes in Me shall never die, and even if they die yet shall they live.” For whether in bodily life or bodily death, those who trust in Christ have life; and in the end when Christ returns the dead shall rise again bodily–even as Christ our Lord has risen as the first-fruits of the resurrection of the dead.

Ecclesiastes is a book of stark contrasts. And when placed within the larger framework of Jewish Wisdom Literature, and within the narrative of Scripture, and illuminated by the truth of Christ we can see that the book highlights the real darkness we see in the world; and that makes the light of Christ shine all the more brightly.

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Another troublesome verse I find causes many to be anxious is this.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 7:21

Peter

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This verse immediately follows what Jesus said about false prophets who are wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are related.

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Ah! Christianity in action, not mere talk

THE DANGER AND PERIL OF FALSE PROFESSION
V. 21-23

  1. “Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,” (ou pas ho legon moi kurie kurie) “Not everyone who repeatedly says to me Lord, Lord”, (contrast Judas saying (Gr. “Rabbi”) “Rabbi” or “respected master,”) Mar_14:45, in expressing excitement, impulsive, or an emotional fervor or zeal, often mere lip service, a false profession, disapproved of the Lord, Isa_29:13; Eze_33:31; Luk_6:46. Talk is cheap and a sham, when unaccompanied by holy living and service, to God and ones neighbors,

  2. “Shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;” (eiseleasetai eis ten basileian ton ouranon) “Will enter into the kingdom of heaven,” will commit himself, of his own accord, to the work of the church, which is referred to by Matthew only as the “kingdom of heaven;” Some thirty times the term is used restrictedly to mean only those saved, baptized, and having entered into a local body of Christ or the church, Mat_16:18; Mat_18:17.

  3. “But he that doeth the will,” (all’ ho poion to thelema) “But (in contrast) the one who does continually as a pattern of life, the strong will,” Eph_5:17; Jas_1:22; Jas_1:25. Words of Christian profession must be accompanied by helpful deeds as leaves must be accompanied by fruit.

  4. “Of my Father which is in heaven.” (tou patros mou tou en tois ouranois) “Of my Father whose will exists (is being done) in the heavens;” Note, Jesus refers not to their father, but to “my Father”, whose work and will I have indicated, in constituting you all here into the church, “my” Father’s Glory Body or agency in this age, Eph_3:21; 1Jn_3:23-24. Jesus referred to God as “my Father” here, for the first recorded time.

Faith in Action: Good Deeds as Evidence
Good deeds are a natural outflow of a living and active faith in Christ. The Bible teaches that faith, without the fruit of good works, is dead. Our deeds reflect the transformative power of God’s love in our hearts. These scriptures highlight the relationship between faith and action, showing us that true faith moves us to serve others.

James 2:17
“So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.”

This verse stresses that genuine faith must lead to action. If we claim to have faith but fail to back it up with good works, our faith is meaningless. Faith is alive when it manifests in love and service to others. It’s not enough to believe; we must also live out that belief through actions that reflect Christ’s heart.

Ephesians 2:10
“For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.”

Paul reminds us that God has designed us for a purpose—good works. As new creations in Christ, we are called to carry out the good things God has set for us. Our good deeds are not random but are part of God’s divine plan. They are a testimony of His workmanship in us and a reflection of His glory to the world.

Matthew 5:16
“In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father.”

Here, Jesus calls us to be lights in the world, using our good deeds to bring glory to God. Our acts of kindness and service aren’t just for the benefit of others; they are a form of worship. When people see the good we do, their attention should ultimately be directed to God, the source of all goodness.

Titus 3:8
“This is a trustworthy saying, and I want you to insist on these teachings so that all who trust in God will devote themselves to doing good. These teachings are good and beneficial for everyone.”

Paul urges believers to be devoted to good works. Doing good is not optional; it’s a calling for all who follow Christ. When we commit to good deeds, we reflect God’s nature, which in turn benefits everyone. Our devotion to serving others becomes a powerful witness of God’s grace and love in action.

Ἄνευ ἔργων, ἄνευ πράξεως, ἄνευ Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ.

Sobering thought indeed.

J.

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Amen! What can we possibly compare the gift of everlasting life with God? Why would we not want to share the good news?

Peter

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Amen.

1Co 15:1 The Resurrection of Christ
I make known now to you, brothers, the gospel that I proclaimed to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
1Co 15:2 by which also you are being saved, to the word I proclaimed to you, if you hold fast; unless if not, in vain you have believed.
1Co 15:3 I delivered for to you in the foremost what also I received, that Christ died for the sins of us according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised the day the third according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the Twelve.
1Co 15:6 Thereafter He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, of whom the greater part remain until now; some however have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 Then He appeared to James, then to the apostles all.
1Co 15:8 Last then of all, as the untimely birth, He appeared also to me.
1Co 15:9 I for am the least of the apostles, who not am fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church - of God.
1Co 15:10 [By the] grace however of God, I am what I am, and the grace of Him - toward me not void has been. Rather, more abundantly than them all I toiled, not I however, but the grace - of God that [was] with me.
1Co 15:11 Whether therefore I or they, thus we preach, and thus you believed.

Good news right here. The kerygma of the gospel.

In biblical usage, kērygma is content driven, referring to the proclaimed facts of salvation history, namely that Jesus is the promised Messiah, that He was crucified according to God’s purpose, that He was raised from the dead, and that forgiveness of sins is now announced in His name, which is why Paul can speak of “the proclamation” as something received, believed, and stood upon ~1 Corinthians 15.1–4, ~Acts 2.22–36.

Paul explicitly distinguishes kērygma from human wisdom or rhetorical technique, insisting that the power lies in the proclaimed message itself, especially the message of the cross, which appears foolish to the world but is the means by which God saves those who believe ~1 Corinthians 1.18–21, ~1 Corinthians 2.4–5.

The kērygma always calls for response, but it does not coerce, because it announces God’s verdict and God’s provision, summoning repentance and faith while leaving judgment and outcome in God’s hands, as seen in apostolic preaching throughout Acts ~Acts 2.37–38, ~Acts 17.30–31.

Crucially, kērygma is not the same as didachē (teaching), because teaching explains, instructs, and grounds believers after conversion, whereas kērygma confronts the hearer with the gospel facts and demands a decision, which is why the early church devoted itself both to proclamation and to instruction, but never confused the two ~Acts 5.42, ~Acts 20.24–27.

At its core, the kērygma is cross centered, because the cross is not an illustration within the message but the message itself, and any proclamation that sidelines Christ crucified ceases to be apostolic kērygma no matter how orthodox it sounds ~1 Corinthians 2.2, ~Galatians 6.14.

You are familiar with Bob Utley, right brother? And is it possible to believe and NOT be a Christian? Absolutely.

J.

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O.o (Looking in to Bob Utley now…) thx

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Oooh, do we have a problem now @Joe-Also ?

J.

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None at all. Just never heard of Bob Utley. Says here that he went to Baylor University. Not bad. Shh… I’m reading. lol

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My apologies then, it seems that no one here is familiar with him, yet the Lord used him mightily in my life and continues to do so even now.

J.

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From what I am reading he seems very “on point”, and he has been in minstry a long time. So you make a good point, why have I not heard of him until now?

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I’ve been sharing links and instructions on how to access the ministry to your computer, completely free, gratis, nothing to pay, with a few members, yet there has been no feedback, which is honestly disappointing. If you would like help, I’m more than willing, just say the word.

J.

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Thank you for the offer. If you would then, DM me a url to his works and any urls his works have been featuted on (for coss-comparison, pun intended). I will look into them when I get back around 1pm.

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A couple of thoughts. Number one, when we receive, accept, believe in Jesus for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit for eternity. We are given this undergarment of salvation that can’t be burned away. There is scripture that says that everything in our life is to be tested by fire and only the deeds done for God survive and are of any lasting benefit. Some will be left with only the undergarment of salvation. So, some will smell slightly of smoke but they will be there. Secondly, I believe the scripture where Jesus says “depart from Me. I never knew you.” I believe these are people who are trusting in their own performance, not on the finished work of Christ. I say this because look at their response, “ didn’t we cast out demons, didn’t WE, etc. Finally, I believe the correct interpretation of James saying faith without works is dead is really interpreted worthless. Truly their faith is worthless in furthering the Kingdom but they are not lost. Only God truly knows their heart. Not for us to judge.

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