Are believers immediately with our Lord Christ Jesus upon death?

General Faith
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Are believers immediately with our Lord Christ Jesus upon death?

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2 Corinthians 5:6-8 is used by many to say when we die we immediately go to be with the Lord in heaven, but these verses do not mean that at all.

If you go back to verse one and two in chapter 5 the tabernacle being spoken of is our fleshly body and when we are in the flesh we are separated from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Romans 8:6, 7.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth – born again Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven, John 3:3-7. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Colossians 3:1-17. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things, John 14:26.

John 3:6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. When we are in the flesh or at home in the body this is our natural carnal being. When we are in the Spirit allowing Gods Spirit to take over the flesh then we are in the presence of the Lord through the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.

God breathed life (breath/spirit) into us, Genesis 2:7, that made us a living soul and what goes back to God when this physical body dies (returns to the dust of the ground) is that very spirit of life God gave us, Ecclesiastics 12:7. Only those of faith under the old covenant (OT) and those of faith under the new covenant through Christ Jesus (NT) will God take that spirit back and reserve it until Christ returns. At that time we are raised with a new glorified body, 1Corintians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, and then we are given back that spirit of life to have everlasting life with the Father.

According to John 3:13 no one has ever ascended into heaven other than Christ.

Scripture says we sleep in the ground until the coming of the Lord. Those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life will be raised to everlasting life with God and those who names are not found will face Gods Great White Throne Judgment and will be cast into the lake of fire, John 5:28, 29; Revelations 20:11-15.

Are the Scripture references quoted above accurate?

Johann.

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Hi,

I am Elthia and I am new in this forum and not sure if I am on the right track with my question or this subject had been discussed before.

My bible group has been studying “Rapture”. One of the questions raised (which I am also a bit confused) is: when a person die, the body and soul are the part of our being that “sleeps”. They are the ones that will rise upon Jesus returns on the second time.

Our being, as I understand it, comprised of a physical body, the soul, and the spirit. (1 Thess 5:23). They have different function:

The body is the physical part we can see and touch, that moves and does all the action(using all the senses - touch, sight, smell, hearing, taste. The soul is the invincible part of our being, that is, our mind (intellect), emotions (sensations), and our growth (eyes). The soul makes the body alive. The soul magnifies God in our emotions and our human limitations. Our spirit is the gift of Jesus to us (also invincible) the only way to connect with God. We can use the spirit if we believe in God and receive Him through Jesus Christ gift of salvation on the cross.

Is it correct to say that the soul is the one figuratively “asleep” (1 Thess 4:15-17) that will be resurrected? The soul that God “breathed the life and became a human living”. Now, the “body” that decayed or becomes dust (cremated) will be given a “new /heavenly body” (1Cor 15:35-36) As soon as the person dies, his spirit immediately returns to God (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

Thank you and my apology for the long introduction.

Sincerely,
Elthia

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Does the physical body from the time of death , shed tears when ,within the coffin , I have experienced seeing tears come the deceased as they are lying in the coffin , prepared for burial.

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I believe everything as you understand it. When we die our soul is immediately with Jesus. Upon His return our bodies will be raised and changed from corruptible to incorruptible, from earthly to heavenly. I like your description of the spirit. Thank you for posting this question

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That is bad embalming. Fluid leakage from tissue breakdown.

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The soul, is the record of the life, lived. The spirit returns to God (the Father) and the spirit is judged on the basis of the soul (record).

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The Scripture references shared raise important questions about life after death, but they require careful contextual balance. Under the Old Covenant, those who died in faith—like Abraham, David, and the prophets—did not immediately ascend into heaven, because Christ had not yet conquered death. Before the resurrection, the righteous dead were gathered into a place often referred to as Abraham’s Bosom or Paradise (Luke 16:22), a place of comfort and rest, but not the full presence of God. It wasn’t until Christ died and rose again that He opened the way into the heavenly realm, as Ephesians 4:8–10 alludes to, where He “led captivity captive.” This signals that those faithful who had died were brought into God’s presence through the completed work of Jesus.

However, for those who die after the resurrection of Christ, Scripture makes clear that they are indeed immediately with the Lord. Paul affirms in 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 that to be “absent from the body” is to be “present with the Lord.” He also says in Philippians 1:23 that his desire was “to depart, and to be with Christ,” which implies immediate conscious presence—not soul sleep or delay. This doesn’t mean we have received our glorified bodies yet; that transformation will occur at the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:52–53), but the spirit of the believer goes directly to be with Jesus.

So yes—those who die now in Christ go immediately to be with Him, even though the full resurrection and glorified body are still to come. The Old Testament saints waited for the cross; we, who live in the light of it, do not.

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Thanks @The_Omega

This is good news, isn’t it?

Johann.

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Johann, you’re trying to stretch Scripture to say what it doesn’t and skipping what it plainly does. Let’s fix that.

You claim 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 doesn’t mean what it says. Paul says, “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” Not eventually. Not after centuries of dirt naps. Present. With. The. Lord. That’s not allegory. That’s clarity. Paul wasn’t writing funeral poetry. He was describing his actual hope. If he thought he’d be unconscious in a tomb until Jesus returns, he would have said so.

Philippians 1:23 backs it up. Paul desired “to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.” Not to depart and be on hold. Not to depart and hibernate. To be with Christ. And Paul wasn’t confused about timing.

You brought out John 3:13 like it overturns everything else. But Jesus said that before the resurrection. Of course no one had ascended to the Father yet. He hadn’t kicked open the gates. That verse was true in that moment. It doesn’t override the full gospel trajectory. Jesus also told the thief on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise.” Not eventually. Not someday. Today. And unless you think Jesus was being cryptic with a dying man, you better take that at face value.

Ecclesiastes 12:7? Yep. The spirit returns to God who gave it. Not to float. Not to freeze. To return. That’s not some soul storage locker. That’s reunion.

You keep quoting “sleep” like it means soul unconsciousness. But in Scripture, “sleep” is how the body is described in death. It’s peaceful. It’s temporary. And it’s because from our view, they’re “resting.” But the soul is active. Alive. Aware. You see that in Revelation 6:9-10. The souls of the martyrs cry out to God. They’re not snoring. They’re praying.

You say God only recognizes His children by the Spirit in them. True. But then why do you think He would separate them from Himself for a holding pattern? That’s not how adoption works. The Spirit in us is our seal, our guarantee. And when this tent folds, we go home.

This idea that we’re unconscious until the resurrection is more influenced by Seventh-day Adventist doctrine than biblical theology. The early church didn’t teach it. Paul didn’t preach it. And Jesus didn’t promise it.

The resurrection of the body is future. The presence of the soul with Christ is immediate. Both are true. And that’s why Paul could stare down death and still say, “We do not lose heart.”

You’re not waiting in the grave for Christ. If you’re His, you’re with Him the moment you die. That’s not wishful thinking. That’s the blessed hope.

—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.

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Please reread my post @SincereSeeker.

I asked–Are the Scripture references quoted above accurate?

Thanks.

J.

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Johann, you asked if the Scripture references you quoted are accurate. Let’s look closely without inserting meaning that’s not stated.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 speaks clearly. Paul says he would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord. The language is straightforward. If Paul believed death meant unconscious delay, he wouldn’t call presence with Christ the immediate next step. Verses 1 and 2 describe the earthly body as a tent and the longing for a heavenly dwelling. That supports, not cancels, the point in verse 8. There is no gap suggested between death and presence with Christ.

Romans 8:6-7 is about the mindset of the flesh versus the mindset of the Spirit. It’s a contrast of spiritual conditions, not a commentary on the state of the soul after death. The flesh is hostile to God when ruled by sin. But a redeemed person in the body is not automatically separated from God. Paul himself says the Holy Spirit dwells in us now, even while in the body.

John 3:3-7 shows the need to be born again to enter the kingdom. No disagreement there. But this speaks of spiritual regeneration, not timing after death. It’s about entering the kingdom now and in eternity, not waiting in the grave.

Colossians 3:1-17 explains putting on the new self in Christ. That’s about present transformation. It supports a life set on things above, not a delay in joining Christ after death.

John 14:26 says the Holy Spirit teaches and reminds us of all Christ said. Again, this is about current guidance, not the state of the soul after death.

John 3:6 contrasts flesh with Spirit. But again, it’s not a timeline verse. It affirms the distinction between natural and spiritual birth, not post-death experience.

Genesis 2:7 and Ecclesiastes 12:7 speak of God giving the breath of life and receiving it back. That is true, but the text does not say the spirit becomes unconscious or inactive. It returns to God. That’s what it says.

John 3:13 is often quoted as if it denies anyone else entering heaven. But at the moment Jesus spoke those words, He was the only one who had ascended. The resurrection had not yet happened. This does not rule out believers being with Christ after His work on the cross.

First Corinthians 15 and First Thessalonians 4 speak of the resurrection of the body. That is future. It does not cancel the reality of the soul being with Christ now. The resurrection reunites the body with what is already alive in Him.

John 5:28-29 and Revelation 20 speak of bodily resurrection and final judgment. That is also future. Again, this does not prove that souls are asleep or unconscious in the meantime.

So yes, the verses themselves are real and relevant. But the way they are grouped together implies a view that Scripture does not actually state. There is no verse that says believers are unconscious until the resurrection. And several, including Philippians 1:23 and Luke 23:43, say exactly the opposite.

Your references are accurate. But the inferences need closer testing against the full counsel of God’s Word.

—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.

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Speedy response from your side @SincereSeeker, that said, I believe a believer is immediately with the Lord at death, so I’m in agreement with ya, and the ECF’s and the Scriptures.

The question of whether believers are consciously with the Lord at death finds clear attestation in the New Testament (Philippians 1:23, 2 Corinthians 5:6–8, Luke 23:43) — and the pre-Augustinian early Church Fathers (ECFs) largely reflect this apostolic teaching, affirming that the faithful departed are indeed with Christ in blessedness and light, awaiting resurrection, rather than annihilated or unconscious. Below is a precise, in-depth, scholarly survey of pre-Augustinian writers who explicitly or implicitly taught that believers are with the Lord at death.

  1. Clement of Rome (c. 96 AD) — 1 Clement 5:4–7
    Clement, writing to Corinth, uses the deaths of Peter and Paul to exhort steadfastness. He describes them as having endured to “the place of glory” (τὸν τόπον τῆς δόξης), and calls them “a great multitude of the elect” who “have fallen asleep in godliness.” While Clement does not spell out a fully developed intermediate state doctrine, his language of entering glory strongly implies conscious blessedness with God immediately after death.

  2. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD) — To the Romans 6:1
    Ignatius is strikingly clear in his personal hope: “Permit me to be an imitator of the suffering of my God. If anyone has Him within himself, let him understand what I want and have compassion on me, knowing the things that constrain me. The Prince of this age wishes to carry me away and corrupt my purpose to God. Therefore, none of you who are present must help him; rather, be on my side, that is, on God’s. Do not speak of Jesus Christ while you desire the world. Do not let envy dwell among you. Even if I myself beg you, do not obey me. Rather, be on my side — this is, on God’s side. Let me receive pure light. When I arrive there, I will be a human being. Permit me to be an imitator of the passion of my God. If anyone has Him within himself, let him understand what I want and have compassion on me, knowing the things that constrain me.”
    Here Ignatius equates his martyrdom with entering “pure light,” a clear metaphor for being in the presence of Christ upon death, not awaiting some unconscious interval.

  3. Polycarp of Smyrna (c. 155 AD) — Martyrdom of Polycarp 14:2; 19:2
    The Martyrdom of Polycarp portrays him praying, as he dies, “that I may be received among them in your presence as a rich and acceptable sacrifice” — and the narrative describes his soul being “taken up into heaven by holy angels.” This explicitly affirms a post-mortem, conscious presence before God.

  4. Justin Martyr (c. 150–160 AD) — Dialogue with Trypho 5; 117
    While Justin sometimes speaks of resurrection as the final hope, he also speaks of “souls of the pious” being in a better state than the wicked even before the resurrection. Although less specific than Ignatius, he affirms that the righteous experience blessedness and communion with God immediately after death.

  5. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 180 AD) — Against Heresies 2.34.1; 5.5.1
    Irenaeus affirms that souls survive death and remain conscious: “The souls of the righteous are in the hand of God, and there shall no torment touch them” (Wisdom 3:1, cited approvingly). In 2.34.1 he clearly rejects annihilation or unconsciousness: “For the soul, indeed, after its departure from the body, exists for a time in an intermediate state, awaiting judgment. Nevertheless, it remains alive and conscious.”

  6. Tertullian of Carthage (c. 200 AD) — On the Soul 55; On the Resurrection of the Flesh 17
    Tertullian speaks of the soul surviving death and of martyrs being “received into the bosom of Abraham” immediately. He even argues against those who deny conscious blessedness between death and resurrection: “All souls, therefore, are kept in ward in Hades until the resurrection, but the condition of the faithful and the righteous is one of refreshment, while that of the wicked is one of punishment.”

  7. Cyprian of Carthage (c. 250 AD) — Epistle 58.10; On Mortality 26
    During a plague, Cyprian exhorts his flock to face death courageously, saying: “We should long for the day which assigns each of us to his own home, which snatches us hence and sets us free from the snares of the world and restores us to paradise and the kingdom.” Cyprian equates death with immediate entrance into paradise and God’s kingdom.

Summary of Early Christian Witness
The consensus among these early witnesses is clear: though the resurrection of the body remains the ultimate Christian hope, the soul of the believer, upon death, is with the Lord, in conscious blessedness and light, awaiting the resurrection. They echo Paul’s own verbs — depart and be with Christ (Philippians 1:23), be at home with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8), today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43).

Their language, “pure light,” “bosom of Abraham,” “in glory,” “in the hand of God,” “received into paradise” — all convey the same doctrinal truth: death for the righteous brings immediate, conscious communion with Christ.

Thus, if asked whether the ECFs believed believers are with the Lord at death, the evidence from Clement through Cyprian provides a firm and resounding yes, rooted in apostolic teaching and carried forward with vivid pastoral confidence.

J.

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@Johann & @SincereSeeker , my friends

Here is a philosophical way to look at this topic, which is consistent with, and supported by scripture (IMHO)

When a person is “born from above” (John 3), the “above” part of that birth is the indwelling of the Spirit (breath) of God. “Life” is infused, and from that moment, The Eternal God is “with” this “New Creation”, the person becomes a “son” (child) of God, (1 John 3:1) and God promises to “never leave, nor forsake” that child (Deut. 31: 6, Josh. 1:5, Heb 13:5).

Practically speaking, If the indwelling Spirit of God will never leave the new child of God, mortal death cannot cause such a separation. Mortal death does not separate man from God, it only separates man from the temporal physical body. The union with God continues uninturrupted.

I have said this to several groups in the past, and it is often met with dismay, but, here goes:
When any person dies physically, nothing eternal changes; the dead remain dead, and the living remain living. Physical death only produces physical changes.

What do you think?
KP

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Hi, @Johann, my brother. So, you believe in soul-sleep and that we only get everlasting life with our bodily resurrection? Is that so? Interesting.

Out of my respect for you, I have some questions:

First, what does 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 mean then, if Paul isn’t saying that our souls go to be with God in heaven when we die?

2Co 5:6 So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord,
2Co 5:7 for we walk by faith, not by sight.
2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Second, what does Paul mean in Philippians 1:21-24?

Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.
Php 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
Php 1:24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.

Third, isn’t he clearly talking about his possible death at the hands of Nero that his soul would go to be with the Lord when he dies, if that event was imminent?

Fourth, if our everlasting life is yet future when we are raised from the dead, why does Jesus say that when we believe we have it in the present tense?

Jhn_3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Jhn_5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Johann, I’m always curious what people believe and, more importantly, their reasons for their beliefs. Your fellow believer, Bruce.

Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.
Php 1:23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
Php 1:24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.

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Johann, credit where it’s due… you didn’t just affirm the truth, you put steel under it. You walked in with Scripture in one hand and the voices of the early Church in the other, and every one of them rang in unison. That matters.

Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, Justin, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Cyprian… these aren’t fringe names floating in theological speculation. These are frontline soldiers of the faith. And their words reflect the apostolic witness, not later invention. When they speak of death, they speak of light. Glory. The bosom of Abraham. Paradise. Not unconscious waiting. Not soul sleep. Not a pause button. But active, conscious fellowship with Christ.

You didn’t blur the distinction between soul and body. You honored it. The resurrection is the promised glorification of the body. It is still to come. But the soul of the redeemed? Already with the Lord. That is why Paul longed to depart. Not to sleep. Not to wait in a dark hallway. But to be with Christ.

Your handling of the fathers shows they understood this exactly as Paul did. They didn’t flatten the hope into one event. They upheld both—immediate presence and future resurrection. That is not contradiction. That is completion.

KPuff’s meditation brings warmth, and there is truth in it. God does not abandon His own. But the promise is not only continued union. It is location. The presence of God is not just with us. At death, we are with Him. Fully. Consciously. Joyfully.

And Bruce’s questions cut to the center. If eternal life is present, how can we say the soul stops living? If Paul wanted to be with Christ at death, why would he describe it that way if he meant unconsciousness? Scripture never once describes the believer’s soul as asleep. It describes the body as sleeping, because that is how temporary it is. The soul, however, is alive. Active. Awaiting a reunion, not an awakening.

Johann, you did not just give an answer. You gave a witness. And the early Church stands with you.

—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.

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God bless @SincereSeeker and shalom to you and family.

J.

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