Do people of different faiths/religions go to Heaven?

General Faith
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Do people of different faiths/religions go to Heaven?

General

In the end-

As said by many, as if it matters

If someone will be saved it will happen by Jesus

They will be moved or directed in someway by the true light that lightens every man that comes into the world.

So any body who will be saved will be by JESUS…

THANK GOD HE KNOWS THE HEART OF EVERYMAN.

IF IT WAS BY HIS GRACE AND MERCY HE SAVED US. THEN IF He saves other that did not know Him…as the Historical Christ that entered the world, He has the ability to save them.

Anyone that does righteous is acceptable to Him…How is it that they would move to seek or do righteous…I assume that it is by the light that lightens every man’s heart that comes into the world.

And who is that Light? I bet it’s Christ Jesus…

And who was it before Jesus came into the earth to reveal God.

I bet it was Christ Jesus..

Let’s see what Scripture says:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

**2**The same was in the beginning with God.

**3**All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

**4**In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

**5**And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

**6**There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

**7**The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

**8**He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

**9**That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

**10**He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

**11**He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

**12**But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

**13**Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

**14**And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Agree @Johann

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When one talked about works, I think like My buddy :smiley: Willard when He says grace is not opposed to effort it is opposed to earning . And we can back that statement up with-> who has given to God that He shall repay Him… Actual scripture:

KJV

Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

NkJV
“Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?”

NASB
Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM, THAT IT WOULD BE PAID BACK TO HIM?

1995 NASB
Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN?

So the scripture where Peter says, He sees God is no respector…etc etc

I believe Peter knew No one can move into righteousness unless …in my own words- they were moved by the light. Did they receive the truth or reject it… Reference to John 1…as many as received Him He gave them the right to become sons of God.

Notes for self as I think out loud

My interpretation..many who received God- He gave the right to becomes sons of God.

For somewhere even the heavens declare God’s Glory…( “word” just came to me)

The heavens declare God’s word…I have to see if scripture verifies this thought.

Which would mean God’s word is the Glory of GOD

AND THAT God is God who exists off His own being

So anyone who will be saved will be saved by God because God Is His word.

Hence, any good Spiritual essence

If anything good is God, Then if truth is good, truth is God. For only God is good

And what sets people free?

…

What I was saying earlier, in which I do see in Peter and Johanns coversation…what I’m about to express.

Is you cannot debate when you have not followed the thinking pattern of another.

Johann you said to Peter read it from this literature.

@Johann

Where I get upset is where you both jump to take a piece of the flow of processes out of the flow of the understanding I’m trying to bring and then argue where I never went with it…instead of asking what do you mean …which means you never were following in the first place. Because you Johann are way to Brilliant in your word searches not to see what I am saying, and thereby agree. After all I receive nothing from it in the way that I am arguing someone else’s thoughts, but that you can follow along with my way of thinking.

Forgot what I was going to show…lol anyway hope u understand…what I am saying.

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I get what Dallas Willard is trying to safeguard with the line, “grace is not opposed to effort, it is opposed to earning.” There’s a helpful instinct there, namely, that the Christian life is not passive, and that obedience requires real exertion.

But the problem is that the statement is imprecise at a key doctrinal level, and that imprecision can lead to confusion.

First, Scripture does not frame the issue merely as effort vs. earning, but as grace vs. works as the ground of justification.

Romans 11:6 (ESV)

“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.”

Paul doesn’t qualify “works” into good vs. bad effort, he excludes them entirely as any basis for acceptance before God.

Second, the Bible does affirm effort, but only in the right category: sanctification, not justification.

Philippians 2:12–13 (ESV)

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you…”

There is real effort (κατεργάζεσθε), but it is grounded in and caused by God’s prior working (ἐνεργῶν). That’s very different from a slogan that can be heard as: “try hard, just don’t try to earn.”

Third, the danger in Willard’s wording is that it can subtly redefine grace as empowerment rather than unmerited favor.

Biblically:

In justification, grace is God’s unearned favor in Christ alone (Rom 3:24).
In sanctification, grace is the power that produces obedience (1 Cor 15:10).

If those categories are not kept distinct, “effort” can drift back into something that feels like it contributes to our standing before God.

So a more precise way to say it would be…

Grace excludes all human merit in justification, but produces Spirit-empowered effort in sanctification.

That keeps both truths intact, yes?

No earning whatsoever before God.
Real, necessary striving in the Christian life.
Grace excludes all human merit in justification, and produces Spirit-empowered effort in sanctification.

That preserves:

The absolute sufficiency of Christ

The necessity of active obedience

The proper order: grace - effort, never effort - grace

I didn’t see your edit Corlove, this is not about me, my brilliancy, or intellectual gnosis, but a certain striving to rightly cutting straight the Scriptures, for mutual edification.

Agree @Corlove13?

J.

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Couldn’t figure out how to take it out of the quotes

449

Opps did it again could not figure how to take out of quotes

450

JOHANN

Biblically:

In justification, grace is God’s unearned favor in Christ alone (Rom 3:24).

Corlove13

Let’s actually look at the passage of Romans 3:24 written out:

23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

So specifically..legalism; what you must do to earn instead of faith who one believes by grace

And to note, Romans the place or location where redemption is: “in” Hence an area where one must consider if you can be Justified more than once?

Reference note: Galatians 2:16 kjv

…AI…

Dallas Willard viewed Romans 3:24—“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (KJV)—not merely as a legal transaction, but as the foundational reality for a transformed life of discipleship.

His interpretation centers on the distinction between earning salvation and engaging in the effort to follow Jesus.

Core Interpretations of Romans 3:24

  • “Justified Freely” (No Earning): Willard emphasized that justification is entirely a gift, removing the need for human beings to earn their standing with God. It is not a reward for a good life, but an “unmerited favor” extended to the believer.

  • “By His Grace” (Active Grace): For Willard, grace is not merely a legal pardon for past sins. It is God’s active presence and power in our lives, enabling us to live in alignment with His kingdom. He famously stated, “Grace is not opposed to effort, it is opposed to earning”.

  • “Through Redemption” (Transformation, Not Just Pardon): He viewed redemption as being released from the bondage of sin and brought into the life of Jesus. It is not just about having sins forgiven to “get into heaven,” but about being transformed now through a personal relationship with the Redeemer.

Key Themes in Willard’s Approach

  1. The Reality of the Kingdom: Willard interpreted this verse as an invitation to participate in the life of the Kingdom of God, which is a present reality, not just a future hope.

  2. Discipleship vs. Conversionism: While acknowledging that justification is free, Willard challenged the idea that discipleship is optional. He argued that the grace that justifies us is the same grace that empowers us to follow Jesus and become like Him.

  3. Active Obedience: He often pointed out that the “not by works” mentioned in scripture refers to legalistic attempts to earn salvation, not the “good works” that are the natural fruit of a saved life.

Summary of the Willard View

Willard would argue that Romans 3:24 sets the stage for a “life-long adventure” of being transformed by grace, rather than a passive status where one simply waits for heaven. It is a “Yes” to God that completely shifts one’s identity from a “sinner trying to be good” to a “child of God empowered by the Spirit”.

In sanctification, grace is the power that produces obedience (1 Cor 15:10).

If those categories are not kept distinct, “effort” can drift back into something that feels like it contributes to our standing before God.

Already explained

So a more precise way to say it would be…

Grace excludes all human merit in justification, but produces Spirit-empowered effort in sanctification.

That keeps both truths intact, yes?

No earning whatsoever before God.
Real, necessary striving in the Christian life.
Grace excludes all human merit in justification, and produces Spirit-empowered effort in sanctification.

:heart:

He never got it wrong though..you took it the way you wanted to

That preserves:

The absolute sufficiency of Christ

The necessity of active obedience

The proper order: grace - effort, never effort - grace

I didn’t see your edit Corlove, this is not about me, my brilliancy, or intellectual gnosis, but a certain striving to rightly cutting straight the Scriptures, for mutual edification.

:laughing: Just throwing out the bait…lol Just in case I did something I don’t know about. THERE REALLY IS NO BOASTING BUT IN God…And because of God and your “effort” you do a brilliant job. :smiley:

Agree @Corlove13?

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Nice chatting with you. Cheers.

Both justification and sanctification are different aspects of a believer’s eternal salvation in Christ (Heb. 2:3; 5:9), and both are graces of the gospel and lie at its very heart.
Question 33 of the Westminster Shorter Catechism defines justification as “an act of God’s free grace, wherein he pardoneth all our sins, and accepteth us as righteous in his sight, only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and received by faith alone.” So, justification is the deliverance from the penalty of sin that was accomplished by Christ for his people at the Cross of Calvary. As the apostle Paul wrote, “Therefore, as one trespass [Adam’s sin] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness [by Christ] leads to justification and life for all men” (Rom. 5:18).

Justification is an act of the free grace of God alone toward sinners who are individually guilty and deserving of God’s eternal wrath (Rom. 3:25; 6:23). It means that every believer is completely free from the condemnation and the wrath of God (Rom. 8:1, 33-34; Col. 2:13-14). Fully and finally free! It is a divine act (cf. Rom. 5:1). It happens only one time to a believer and, unlike sanctification, it is not a continuing process. It is a completed work in all believers; it can neither be reversed nor repeated (cf. Heb. 10:2, 10, 12). So, justification is a once-and-for-all act. Christians may not be equally mature in Christ, but they are each equally justified (Acts 13:39).

Justification does not describe the way that God inwardly renews and changes a person. Rather, it is a forensic act describing the legal standing of a justified person before a holy God (Rom. 5:1). In essence, it is a courtroom declaration of being found not guilty based on Christ’s righteousness alone and not on a person’s works. A legal declaration of one’s standing before God does not mean the believer is inwardly sinless or pure. It speaks not of the purification of one’s nature, but of one’s righteous position before God.

God justifies the ungodly, not the godly (Rom. 5:5). How does he do this? He credits the righteousness of Christ’s perfect obedience and full satisfaction for sin to the believer’s account. This free act of God’s grace proceeds on the grounds of the imputed righteousness of Christ (cf. Rom. 5:19). The believer is saved not only by Christ’s death but also Christ’s perfect sinless life. The basis for this divine declaration is the doing and dying of Christ alone. Christ is the righteousness of all those who are justified (1 Cor. 1:30).

Justification is received by faith without works (Rom. 3:20-22; 4:1-8, 24; 5:1; Gal. 3:5-12). It is not deserved by the sinner, nor can it be earned or merited. A believer’s faith adds absolutely nothing to what Christ has done for them in justification; it only receives the righteousness of Christ offered in the gospel (Rom. 4:4-5). Essentially, the sinner comes empty-handed to the market of free grace for remission of sins and God’s favor (cf. Isa. 55:1; Matt. 10:8).

By contrast, sanctification is not the act of God declaring a person righteous. Rather, as the Westminster Shorter Catechism Q. 35 states, it is “the work of God’s free grace, whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.” It is the continuous process of believers becoming more Christlike (cf. Rom. 8:29). It is the continuous, progressive renewing and transforming of our whole person – our affections, behaviors, minds, thoughts, bodies and wills.
Sanctification is both God’s doing and ours. As to God’s part, it is the Holy Spirit working in his beloved both to will and do of his good pleasure (Phil. 2:13). It includes the saint’s continuous deliverance from the power of sin — "the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life (1 John 2:16). It also incorporates his working in us to live unto righteousness (Phil. 2:12; cf. Gal. 5:22-23), “being confident of this, that He who began a good work in [us] will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus” (Phil. 1:6, NASB).

As to our part, we are to count ourselves dead to sin, but alive to God and his righteousness (Rom. 6:11). While the power of sin in us is broken, we still have to take active steps against it.

In summary, justification happens after regeneration and conversion. Sanctification begins after justification and is ongoing up to the time of glorification. Justification is a declaration of one’s righteousness; sanctification is the process of making one more righteous. Justification is a once-and-for-all divine act; sanctification is a continual process. Justification addressees the guilt of our sin; sanctification addresses the dominion and corruption of our sin.

Both these graces concern different aspects of the believer’s faith in Jesus Christ. In justification, the believer’s faith results in his freedom from sin and his acceptance, being declared fully righteous in God’s sight. In sanctification, this very same faith is enabled to actively and enthusiastically take up all the commands of Christ and live them for God’s glory alone.
Dr. Joseph R. Nally, Jr.

I’ve decided this morning not to use emoticons anymore.

J.

452

So my question can you be Justified more than once?

453

What do you think? Have you been justified more than once? The post is right in front of your eyes.

J.

454

You’ll have to forgive me Johann…Im about to get up and was interested what you had to say on that. I was not going to ignore you explaining Justification snd Sanctification…because I already know I most likely don’t disagee.

Sometimes I haven’t put all my thoughts together that may or may not include something or know if it fits, or even if the knowledge should be in the same categorical thought…so I asked. Your ideals may already be shaped, but Im in the process of trying to pull all scriptures on my mind to form a view. And that might take interpretation first.

…Anyway this is what Ai says my teacher would say…

Based on the teachings of Dallas Willard, Abraham was indeed justified more than once, as Willard viewed justification not as a one-time static transaction, but as part of an ongoing, interactive relationship with God.

Key Aspects of Willard’s View on Abraham’s Justification:

  • Faith as Trust, Not Just Belief: Willard emphasized that the faith credited to Abraham as righteousness (Genesis 15) was fundamentally “trust in God” and his character, rather than just intellectual assent.

  • Relationship Over Legalism: In discussions regarding Abraham, Willard suggested that God is more interested in a person’s faith in Him than in rigid obedience, and that sin is not a final defeat to God.

  • Multiple Occurrences: Within the narrative of Abraham, he was justified at various stages, such as when he first left Haran (Genesis 12), when he believed God’s promise regarding his descendants (Genesis 15), and when he offered Isaac (Genesis 22), illustrating a growing, deepening relationship.

  • Active Friendship with God: Willard taught that salvation is a “life with God,” a continuous, active, and transforming friendship with the Trinity, rather than a single legal transaction.

Willard believed that focusing only on a “once-and-for-all” justification often leads to a static, non-transformational faith, arguing instead for a dynamic, ongoing walk of faith.

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Romans 5:1 (ESV)

“Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Greek clause (key term):

Δικαιωθέντες οὖν ἐκ πίστεως… (Dikaiōthentes oun ek pisteōs…)

δικαιωθέντες (dikaiōthentes)
Aorist (tense) - denotes a completed action
Passive (voice) - God is the one who justifies
Participle (form) - adverbial, causal (“since / having been justified”)
Root verb: δικαιόω (dikaioō) = to declare righteous (forensic, legal)

Because δικαιωθέντες in Romans 5:1 is an aorist passive participle of δικαιόω, it denotes a completed, once-for-all forensic act performed by God, grounding a present and ongoing state (“we have peace”), thereby excluding the idea of repeated or progressive justifications and directly contradicting the claim that Abraham, or any believer, is justified multiple times.

Willard’s assertions don’t hold up under careful biblical and exegetical scrutiny, you’ll need to look to a more reliable teacher @Corlove13

Thanks.

J.

456

I thought I pointed out Galatians 2:16 as a reference earlier…But maybe I didn’t.

But here is what it says:

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

**15 **We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

**17 **But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

**18 **For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

**19 **For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

**20 **I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

**21 **I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I’ll have to come back to Gal 2:16…so to be continued..

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Think you need to stay focused and read what I have written to you @Corlove13.

AI is not geared for systematic theology.

J.

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I was born again through His teachings…, so :person_shrugging: they worked for me…

If what He says is in scripture…and interpreted rightly then you have no legg to stand on…

Im trying to see how it fits in if it does or doesn’t…

Not argue against u…

I’ll listen to those who Have known testimonies and bridal their :tongue: tongue over knowledge that has not produced loving responses.

For the knowledge that works produces love

If you make a statement against someone’s thought back it up. Otherwise it’s empty and you’ll have to ask yourself why you made it.

459

Willard is in error, and by following his view here, you are as well. I’ve already pointed you to the relevant Scriptures, and since this is becoming argumentative, I’ll be moving on.

I don’t have time for this.

J.

460

Well Share how? Empty statement…Johann! You are better then this. He shows scriptures. It just goes against your formulas. That might be why we shouldn’t make any. For look how your attitude has become because something doesn’t fit what you formulated. I have no problem with you copping out. It’s simple we just dont know everything.

What is His view?..The error is not Him its you thinking someone is against your teachings. That’s what you need to work on. Otherwise state the error?

Again these are your thoughts not his:

Johann thoughts below, that’s not what Dallas says- this is your take below…Im speaking of your words, your assessment, and not what I said at all…

Johann’s words

Because δικαιωθέντες in Romans 5:1 is an aorist passive participle of δικαιόω, it denotes a completed, once-for-all forensic act performed by God, grounding a present and ongoing state (“we have peace”), thereby excluding the idea of repeated or progressive justifications and directly contradicting the claim that Abraham, or any believer, is justified multiple times.

I myself is trying to understand in that area how it unites with the teaching as you and I both understand it. Lord have :pleading_face: Mercy

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Rom 5:1 Therefore, οὖν having been justified Δικαιωθέντες by ἐκ faith, πίστεως we have ἔχομεν* peace εἰρήνην with πρὸς - τὸν God Θεὸν through διὰ our ἡμῶν - τοῦ Lord Κυρίου Jesus Ἰησοῦ Christ, Χριστοῦ,

herefore, (+) because we [Here “because” is supplied as a component of the participle (“have been declared righteous”) which is understood as causal] have been declared righteous by faith, we have [Although a number of important manuscripts read the subjunctive mood here (“let us have”), almost all English versions prefer the indicative mood (“we have”) which is supported by many other manuscripts] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rom 5:1 δικαιωθεντεςG1344 V-APP-NPM ουνG3767 CONJ εκG1537 PREP πιστεωςG4102 N-GSF ειρηνηνG1515 N-ASF εχομενG2192 V-PAI-1P προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM θεονG2316 N-ASM διαG1223 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM ημωνG1473 P-1GP ιησουG2424 N-GSM χριστουG5547 N-GSM

You need to study the Scriptures yourself, seriously @Corlove13

Try this, rather than Willard, or if you wish, I can point you to sources.

Until then, have a good day.

J.

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Ok I thought you were able to discuss and might be of some help. But I still have to process how you came across where I’m trying to show you love…

But I found the answer that makes so much sense now…

And I do think you will agree..and of course Im sticking with humble Willard…and my other favorites as Thurman.

But if you don’t agree Im going to love you still…we all trying to get to the same place. Hopefully it will also enlighten others…

…

Dallas Willard explains the relationship between justification and sanctification by challenging the notion that they are strictly separated, using the life of Abraham to show that justification is a living, progressive process of engaging with God rather than a one-time “legal fiction”. Willard suggests that Abraham’s justification was not a single, isolated event, but a, faith-based interactive relationship that matured over time.

Here is how Willard interprets this through the narrative of Abraham:

1. Initial Justification: Faith in Promise (Genesis 15)

In Genesis 15:6, Abraham believes God’s promise, and “it was counted to him as righteousness.” Willard interprets this as the “conversion” moment—the beginning of a relationship of trust. At this point, Abraham is justified based on his confidence in God, not on his actions.

2. Ongoing Justification & Sanctification: Testing and Obedience (Genesis 22)

Willard highlights the later event in Genesis 22, where Abraham offers Isaac. This act is not simply a “work” that adds to his original justification; rather, it is the outworking of his faith, where his justification is solidified and demonstrated through obedience.

  • Sanctification as Process: Willard argues that sanctification is the process of being made holy, which in Abraham’s case, happens through the trials and obedience that resulted from his faith.

  • The “Second” Justification: Willard views this later stage as Abraham becoming the person who is righteous, having been justified and sanctified by a living, active faith over a lifetime.

3. Key Willardian Principles in this View

  • Conjoining Justification and Sanctification: Willard argues that evangelicalism often wrongly separates these, making justification a legal act and sanctification a purely human effort. Instead, he sees them as a conjoined, continuous process of “life in the Kingdom of God”.

  • Faith is Interactive: Abraham’s faith wasn’t just mental assent; it was an active interaction with God, seen in his obedience, which is the core of discipleship.

  • The “Obedience of Faith”: Abraham’s “works” in offering Isaac did not invalidate grace; they proved that faith was genuine and that Abraham had truly become a man of God.

In summary, Willard uses Abraham to explain that justification is not just being forgiven for the past, but the beginning of a life of obedience (sanctification) that continually engages with God and transforms the person, thus demonstrating God’s righteousness in them.

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Willard is wrong @Corlove13

Justification is a completed forensic declaration (Rom 5:1, aorist passive), not a process-what is progressive is sanctification, not justification.

By the way, this is off topic and you are argumentative.

J.

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You are right Johann in your own thinking