1 Timothy 2:5-6- “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all.
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And how do you understand this isolated verse
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“Who will have all men to be saved” (hos pantas anthropous thelei sothenai) “Who has an high holy will that all men be saved.” If our Lord willed all men to be saved, should not His children will the same? And if so, pray for it? Luk_10:2; Joh_4:35; Rom_9:1-3; Rom_10:1-4; Eze_33:11; Luk_3:34; 2Ti_1:9.
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“And to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” (kai eis epignosin aletheias eithein) “And into a full knowledge of truth to come.” 2Pe_3:9. The term truth means “practical, saving truth,” the Word of God concerning the sin and salvation, Pro_1:21-23; Joh_8:32; Joh_8:36; Joh_17:3. The meaning of this verse is that God sincerely wills and has provided for the eternal salvation of every men on earth and desires that each saved person help make this known to every needy soul possible. Nothing but the obstinacy, enmity, and rebellion of a sinner against God’s call and will ultimately damns any soul in hell. Yet, the responsibility to bear this story of truth is left to the church and the children of God, as the Holy Spirit leads, guides, and convicts.
NEGLECTING SALVATION
Most of the calamities of life are caused by simple neglect. By neglect of education children grow up in ignorance: by neglect a farm grows up to weeds and briars; by neglect a house goes to decay; by neglect of sowing a man will have no harvest; by neglect of reaping, the harvest will rot in the fields. No worldly interest can prosper where there is neglect; and why may it not be so in religion? There is nothing in earthly affairs that is valuable that will not be ruined if it is not attended to --and why may it not be so with the concerns of the soul?
“God our Savior” See full note at 2Ti_1:10.
1Ti_2:4 “who desires all men to be saved” Believers are to pray for all people because God wants all people saved. This was a shocking statement to the exclusivistic false teachers, whether Gnostic or Jewish, or more probably in the Pastoral Letters, a combination. This is the great truth about God’s love for all mankind (cf. 1Ti_4:10; Eze_18:23; Eze_18:32; Joh_3:16; Joh_4:42; Tit_2:11; 2Pe_3:9; 1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_4:14). This verse shows the imbalance of dogmatic, super-lapsarian, double-edged predestination which emphasizes God’s sovereignty to the exclusion of any needed human response. The stated truths of “five point” Calvinism, especially “irresistible grace” and “limited atonement,” violate the covenant aspect of biblical faith. It is improper to reduce God to a puppet of human free will, as it is also improper to reduce mankind to a puppet of divine will.
God in His sovereignty has chosen to deal with fallen mankind by means of covenant. He always initiates and structures the covenant (cf. Joh_6:44; Joh_6:65), but He has mandated that humans must respond and continue to respond in repentance and faith (cf. Mar_1:15; Act_3:16; Act_3:19; Act_20:21).
Often the theological discussion of God’s sovereignty (predestination) and human free will deteriorates into a proof-texting contest. The Bible clearly reveals the sovereignty of YHWH. However, it also reveals that His highest creation, mankind made in His image, had been given the awesome personal quality of moral decision making. Humans must co-operate with God in every area of life.
The term “many” has been used to assert that God has chosen some (the elect) but not all; that Jesus died for some, not all.
A careful reading of the following texts shows that these are used in a parallel sense!
Isaiah 53
Romans 5
- “all” (Isa_2:6)
- “many” (Isa_2:11-12)
- “all” (Rom_2:18)
- “many” (Rom_2:19)
“to be saved”
This is an aorist passive infinitive (see Special Topic at 2Ti_1:9). This implies fallen humans cannot save themselves, (passive voice) but God is ready, willing, and able to do so through Christ.
“and to come to the knowledge” This phrase is used several times in the Pastoral Letters (cf. 2Ti_2:25; 2Ti_3:7; Tit_1:1). It means to understand and respond to the gospel message (cf. Eph_4:13).
This is the intensified Greek form epi + gnôsis, which implies “full and experiential knowledge.”
This inclusivism was a real jolt to the false teachers’ emphasis on elitism and special knowledge. The exact relationship between the Jewish and Greek elements in the false teachers is uncertain. They obviously have a Jewish element which magnified “myths,” “genealogies,” and “the law” (see note at 1Ti_1:6-7). There has been much speculation related to the Greek element. There was surely an element of immorality which was more characteristic of Greek false teachers than Judaism. How much of the later Gnostic system of angelic levels is involved in the heresies of the Pastoral Letters is simply uncertain. In Word Pictures in the New Testament, vol. 4, p. 567, A. T. Robertson identifies the false teachers as “Gnostics.”
With the archeological discovery at Nag Hammadi in Egypt we now know much more about the Gnostic speculations and theology. There is an English translation of these texts entitled The Nag Hammadi Library edited by James M. Robinson and Richard Smith. There is also an interesting interpretation of these texts in Hans Jonas’ book The Gnostic Religion.
“of the truth” The term “truth” is used in several ways in the New Testament:
- for the person of Jesus (cf. Joh_8:31-32; Joh_14:6)
- to describe the Spirit (cf. Joh_16:13)
- to describe the “Word” (cf. Joh_17:17)
God’s truth is ultimately seen in Jesus Christ, the Living Word, which is adequately recorded in the Bible, the written Word; both are brought to light to us through the agency of the Holy Spirit. The truth referred to here is parallel to “the sound teaching” of 1Ti_1:9 and “the glorious gospel of the blessed God” of 1Ti_1:10. It refers to the good news of Jesus Christ (cf. 1Ti_4:3; 2Ti_2:25; 2Ti_3:7; Tit_1:1).
Utley.
Universalism?
J.
Very true. Welcome to the community.
Peter
The Father applies towards those who are infants, children, and those born mentally challenged the blood of Jesus to cover their sins
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Hi Joanne.1966. I am new to this forum and this is actually my first post. I was raised a Christian but am now an agnostic who is deeply interested in seeking the truth. In your post above you state that “All I DO know is that God stated that He is the alpha and the omega”. I don’t know how you could possibly “know” this as a fact, as I am not sure that God himself is quoted as saying this in the Bible (please provide a verse if you have it), and even if it was, it would have been through man documenting (scribing) it, which leaves some question, along with anything from the Bible. I am not trying to be difficult here, just interested in your defense of this statement. The word faith implies not knowing for certain. Thanks.
I appreciate your inquiry, and your transparency concerning your current spiritual condition. It is not surprising that you doubt. I understand.
The phrase “I am the Alpha and the Omega” is found four times in The Bible. All four of them are in the book called “The Revelation of Jesus Christ”, which literally means “God Himself “revealing” the fullness of Jesus to mankind.” The “revelation” was given to The Apostle John, and he wrote exactly what God said. I understand that you have misgivings about this process, and there is not much to do about that at this point. The Book of Revelation opens with this claim (Revelation 1:8, & 1:11), and it ends with this same claim (Revelation 21:6 & 22:13). If it is, as you suggest “open to error through man’s fallible transcription”, then your doubts are understandable. If it is actually Holy God (perfect) speaking to a man, and inspiring that man to accurately scribe exactly what he is told, then you really have some things to carefully consider. If the revelation is exactly what it claims to be, then the one making the statement is also exactly who He claims to be, and for you that makes your situation dire and worthy of your most earnest investigation.
You said:
I know that is what the word “faith” means to you, and that is how it is commonly used in secular parlance, but when the Bible uses the word “faith” there is no uncertainty contained in it. To Christians, and to The Bible, the word “faith” means “taking God at His word”, and God’s words have no ambiguity in them. Every word of Holy (perfect) God is purely and perfectly True, and has not variation or uncertainty. If The Perfect God said it, it is perfectly true, and accepting that truth is what the Bible calls “faith”. The Bible describes faith as two very certain things; acceptable evidence of things we cannot see, and surety of things that will eventually come to pass. (Hebrews 11:1). So our understanding of “faith” is different.
Thanks again for your post. I appreciate your handle “TruthSeek”.
God says: I love those who love me, And those who seek me diligently will find me. (Proverbs 8:17)
Hope you continue to “seek”
KP
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Nobody lives a good, moral life. We’re all sinners in need of saving. The Bible is clear that its our faith in Jesus that saves us and no one can come to God except through Him.
Those who’ve never heard the gospel or to those who were raised in another faith, is not a problem for God. He is God after all and He can bring the gospel to them. I hear of many Muslim people who’ve had an encounter with Jesus and became His followers. I have never heard of a Muslim who had an encounter with Jesus and decided not to follow Him. God knows the heart of all people and He knows who will say yes to His Son and who will not. Everyone who’s heart will say yes to Jesus will be saved. So I guess my answer is no, they don’t go to heaven too.
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Some are going to feel the Bible is nothing more than just another “religious book” and means little to nothing. Some will tell you that the Bible is full of contradictions and false information. Not true. There is not one single contradiction in the Bible. No, not one. There are misunderstandings, differing points of view, and poor translations, but zero contradictions. Then you are going to have those who honestly ask, Why should we believe the Bible? Why should we put the Bible over every other religious book? How do we know for a fact that the Bible is true?
One of the easiest ways to disprove the Bible is also one of the easiest ways to prove the Bible is the Truth. You see. There are 1,239 prophecies in the Old Testament and 578 prophecies in the New Testament for a total of 1,817. This is according to “The Encyclopedia of Biblical Prophecy” by J. Barton Payne.
If the Bible makes all these predictions, and they are proven false, then the Bible is indeed false. However, if the Bible makes all these predictions, and then predictions that have been proven correct prove the bible true. Here are some examples. General, Babylon Will Rule Over Judah for 70 Years.Jeremiah 25:11-12. Babylon then began to take many Jews as captives to Babylon and destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. This domination of the Jews ended in 539 BC, when Cyrus, a leader of the Persians and Medes, conquered Babylon, bringing an end to the empire. This was predicted in Isaiah 45:1. Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14 both tell of how the luscious and beautiful land of Edom, today a part of Jordan, would become a desert and wasteland.
Israel itself is a prophecy fulfilled. Isreal? As we know it today? The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem’s nine suburbs were predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. Jeremiah 31:38-40, Ezekiel 37:21-22. Isaiah 66:7-8 describes this taking place in one day. This rebirth became history in 1948, in one day, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted. Jesus and His life? Isaiah 53. To name one.
Scientific? How about COVID-19? Quarantine is needed to keep the majority safe. Leviticus 13:45-46. Let’s stick with health for a sec. Also in Leviticus, Leviticus 17:11, again, Leviticus was written somewhere between 538–332 BC. During that time and many years after, it was thought that to heal a sick person would be to bleed them. Actually removing their life force instead of attempting to heal the disease. While we are at it. Was Jesus sweating blood? Luke 22:44
Commonly referred to as Hematidrosis or Hemohidrosis, this condition results in the excretion of blood or blood pigment in the sweat. Under conditions of great emotional stress, tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can rupture, thus mixing blood with perspiration. This condition has been reported in extreme instances of stress. 76 cases of Hematidrosis were studied and classified according to causative factors. The most frequent causes of the phenomenon were found to be “acute fear” and “intense mental contemplation.” So yes, Jesus, facing all He was about to, including the Cross, did indeed sweat blood.
God created animals “after their kind.” Genesis 1:11-13 Nineteenth-century biologists argued that animals evolved from other, very different animals, but today biology confirms that creatures reproduce within their own kind. Mankind? Genesis 3:20, 1 Corinthians 15:45, The Bible claims that all humans are “one blood” descended from one man and one woman. Some nineteenth-century biologists argued that different races descended from lower animals, but today genetics has verified that there is only one human race.
One of my favorites? How about the flat earth? The flat earth model is an archaic conception of the earth’s shape as a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures subscribed to a flat earth cosmography, including Greece until the classical period 323 BC, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period 31 BC, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD), and China until the 17th century. Believe it or not, there are still some today who believe this to be true.
For me, if the Bible, THE word of God, says it, it is certain.
Peter
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You state that He is God and, therefore, can bring the gospel to everyone. Surely, however, he has not. There are undoubtedly many who have not yet heard of Christianity and what they need to do to be saved.
Thank you for your detailed reply. I had not heard that perspective regarding the meaning of faith before.
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Thank you, Peter, for taking the time to respond. I have provided below my views on some of what you stated and welcome your viewpoint.
You state that “there is not one single contradiction in the Bible. No, not one. There are misunderstandings, differing points of view, and poor translations, but zero contradictions”. Although I cannot confirm at this time that there are no contradictions within the Bible (New or Old Testament), your comment does raise the question as to why there would be “poor translations” or “misunderstandings” in the first place. I assume you believe that the Bible was written by man but guided by the hand of God and that God’s plan for telling us how to get to heaven was through this single book, or series of books. If so, doesn’t this seem like a poor way to accomplish this? When you consider the conversions of the Bible to different languages and general evolution of meanings that take place over time with words even within the same language, you would certainly expect that there will be confusion. For something as critical as how to get to heaven, wouldn’t you expect a less flawed method to have been used by an all knowing, all powerful being? The use of a book seems like a poor choice, almost suggesting a human construct rather than that of a divine being. You yourself admitted there are misunderstandings in it. Doesn’t is stand to reason that these misunderstandings could result in someone not believing in God and, therefore, not going to heaven? How can this be justified? Wouldn’t you agree?
And regarding Israel, I have several thoughts on that that I will expand on in a separate thread and look forward to an engaging discussion with you and the group at that time. I do greatly appreciate the opportunity to engage with folks like yourself as I seek the truth, and certainly mean no disrespect in any of my questioning or replies. Understand that my goal is knowledge no matter what and at times I can come across less subtle in my correspondences.
That is where the Holy Spirit comes in. Even when Jesus was here in the flesh and talking directly to people, some still could not understand. Why?
“Hear this, O foolish and senseless people, who have eyes, but see not, who have ears, but hear not.” Jeremiah 5:21
And here
“For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.” Matthew 13:15
So why is this? Because they are not of God.
“Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:43-47
Remember that it was the religious leaders of the day to whom Jesus was talking. But the good news is this. Jesus told us this.
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” John 14:26
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore, I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.” John 16:12-15
Without the Spirit, you cannot possibly understand the Word. Sadly, this is one of the reasons there are so many denominations. People read but do not perceive, or they read and reject the true meaning and go off thinking they are right and true. Some who have translated the Bible over the years twist it to fit whatever they wish to add or remove.
Just because one attempts to read the Word does not mean that they have an understanding of what it means. It can and will be very confusing without the Spirit of God guiding and teaching along the way. After all, the devil can quote it chapter and verse, does that make him a Christian?
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How do you know this?
I’m not sure you’ve really answered my question. Stating “that’s where the Holy Spirit comes in” is, in my opinion, a weak and typical response. In fact, your supporting context is actually further evidence that God’s plan to use the Bible as the sole vehicle for conveying his commands, including how to get to heaven, is not ideal especially for someone who can do anything. Wouldn’t you agree? For example, instead of communicating his commands through his followers over 2,000 years ago, followed by human documentation of these commands into books many decades later, and expecting everyone in the future to buy into it, he could simply have used his powers to inform everyone in a more obvious way (e.g. actually appearing to everyone and telling them personally). For something as important as rotting in hell or going to heaven, doesn’t is make more sense for him to be clear?
I do not know this any more than someone stating that God will bring the gospel to everyone. Let me ask you a question. Do you think that everyone in the world is currently aware of Christianity and what is required to go to heaven? That there is no one anywhere, at any age, that has not been informed?
No. I don’t think that everyone is the world ‘currently’ is aware of Christianity. I do believe that God, who exits outside of time, knew before the creation of the world who would say yes to Him and since He knew that, He makes sure they have that opportunity to say yes. I take this from Romans 8:29-30.
“For those God foreknew (those He knew would make the decision for Him), He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, (He made sure it was going to happen) that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, those He predestined, He also called, (in some way He makes sure they get the message) whom He called He also justified (salvation through faith in Jesus) and whom He justified He also glorified.
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Interesting, and thank you for sharing the supporting verse. But man that is one confusing verse. I don’t know what to make of it, and pretty sure I’m not alone. It’s no wonder so many people are confused. Did God really intend this confusion?
If I try and understand correctly, you are interpreting the verse(s) to mean that He already knows whether or not you or I will be going to heaven. Is that correct? If so, then does it really matter what we do? It makes no sense and to me suggests Paul might have been making it up himself and not really getting his information directly from Christ like he said he was. Are we predestined?
Do you see what I see?
There are 2 different types of belief, and 2 different types of believer: There are those who vehemently beat a drum and scream that they alone have the answer. And there are those who leave room for error, and room to grow. One fights a war, the other has Peace.
For some, salvation hinges on having perfect knowledge and understanding. They need something that gives them the definitive answer to all their questions regarding the Truth, Right or Wrong, Black or White. They can’t handle the Mystery- All that grey space inbetween all the written Word where the answers are just not found. In this need, they take Faith and Salvation and such and reduce it or define it based on human standards as pertaining to the capacity of human understanding. And we call that limited understanding of Existence, God, and All, “Dogma.”
It becomes unyielding, unbending like the Law itself. We cannot be wrong about what we believe, and we dare not ever question, or believe the wrong thing, counter to what we are told to believe because then we wont be saved. This is Religion. All or nothing. And some people are just wired to be this way. They cannot help it and couldn’t change if they tried.
“Dogma,” or as it is spelled backwards, “ (I) am god.” Where the person who declares that they have the Absolute Truth or Knowledge is hidden, or secretly declaring that they are god. And that is not a coincidence as the heart will always eventually reveal itself in some mighty profound ways, such as the word “Dogma.” The intention is hidden in the word itself, backwards like the devil’s tongue.
And then we come to the other type of believer, those who have Faith in the Eternal. This is where Spirituality exists. We do not know where Noah’s Ark rests, or where the Garden of Eden resides, if either actually exists. But we do know that God is LOVE. We know that LOVE fulfills the LAW. We know that Salvation requires that we set down legalism, vengefulness, spite, and greed and embrace a Spirit of LOVE.
Why do we know this in the face of not being able to be certain of any other fact or detail except through Belief or Faith? Because if we are true to our Testimony and Witness to the world, we have proven it true through our lives. Because we have tasted the Living Water that Christ offers which leads to Eternal Life, and been Transformed by it. God makes it evident in us.
Furthermore, the difference between these two forms of belieiving is the same as the difference between the first born and the second. The reason why the first will be last and the last will be first. And why a Prophet is never accepted in his own home town. It is the difference between those who have the Law in their head, and those who have the Law in their heart.
If Knowledge could have saved us, Christ would never have needed to come. Nor would we have needed any other Messianic figure, Prophet, Teacher, or any one else called by God to guide us like sheep. Eternal Life is not born from Knowledge. That is a completely different tree in Eden. We ate of the Tree of Knowledge, and it ruined us. No, Eternal Life is born by partaking of the Fruit of the Tree of Eternal Life.
And as for whether God is guiding anyone else in this world by any other religion or faith, the same will be true for them. It will be evident in the Power of that Witness of God’s Power through them.
Show me someone who deeply LOVES, and I will show you someone who talks and walks with God whether they know it or not.
And as always, I capitalize LOVE as so to differentiate God’s LOVE from man’s understanding of love. Not warm fuzzies or erotic tingles or desires for finite things, all of which declines, whithers, fades, and shifts like sand so that you can never have sure footing.
No, God’s LOVE binds and holds all things together, making all things One. One body, One family, One creation, where we truly are our brother’s keeper, where we become our neighbor’s ally, where the good hand goes out of its way to save the bad one instead of cutting it off when it sins. Because the Whole will be affected. And where we care for every creature, every plant, all existence. Because God made it all to be cared for. Because God made the Creation to be LOVED. And because we were made to care for it in the beginning, not to destroy it.
Even if we disagree with the World as a Whole, or the shape it is in with it being all sinful and broken. We are still a part of ithe Whole Thing, just as Adam was still a part of Eve when he blamed her for the fall. They were One before God. And just as Eve blamed the snake. They were still all One Creation, pointing fingers, laying blame, trying to cast the sin and the cost away.instead of taking personal responsibility and confronting the problem and trying to make it right.
We didn’t Create the World or Creation. Its not ours to destroy, no matter how we feel about it. Because It All belongs to God. And, once again, we are One Creation made by God. Neither you nor I can seperate ourselves from each other, nor can we seperate ourselves from the air we breathe or the water we drink or the food we eat or the moon and sun above us that gives us light or all the other people around you or me or all the people in far off lands we may never see, or from the mother who brought you into it or the father who will take you out with one more smart word. Nor from the many ancestors before us and the children after us. Every action or inaction leads to consequences toward wholeness or suffering, baring even more fruit long after. Because we are all connected.
And If you want to find your purpose, Beloved, tend to what God gave you. There is a garden with your name on it. Help it to grow healthy well and safe. Regardless of what anyone believes, the Work is still the same. Seek and save the lost, heal the wounded, restore the broken. Make them Whole again. And put sin to rest.
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Some things are true whether you agree or not. Yes. The Bible IS the Word of the living God. It is not a book. It is a living and breathing word of God that possesses more power than you can imagine. This is where we can learn the answer to any questions that actually matter.
However?
No. Jesus is the way to get to heaven. You can “hear.”
“So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.” Romans 10:17
Accept the good news that you heard and be saved. If you never read the Bible, you would still be saved through Christ. You would miss out on so very much more, but to heaven you would go.
Peter
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If it is all true, then prove it. Why should anyone take anyone else at their word especially when it comes to Salvation or God or the Word of God? Or Heaven, Hell and the Final Judgement? The harder someone presses you to believe something, the more suspect that person becomes. Look at how many people have proclaimed the date of Christ’s return on this website alone. Each one has Proven by the passing of that date that they know nothing. From what spirit do those proclamations come?
And whether it is true or not, knowledge cannot save anyone. The Pharisee had all the known “Knowledge” of God and the Law before Christians and it did not save them. Every cult leader stands up and says they alone have the Truth, they Alone will show the Way. But only One thing differentiates the Real from the fake, the Truth from the lie, and that is the fruit of the Spirit or spirit they walk in. And you will find both in the Christian Church just as you will find both in the World at large- People who follow God, and those who clearly do not. One path leads to Life, the other to death. And not just because I say so- anyone can look and see the consequence of the seeds we plant in this life and the trees that grow as a result. They can look, see, and say, I know what tree that is. I know whether that fruit nourishes or harms.
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