You’re right. It is a very difficult verse. Part of the problem is knowing that God is eternal (He is outside of time which is His creation) and we live in time. So being outside of time, God is able to see all of it and that’s how He can give us prophecy -what will happen in the future, because He’s already seen it. But knowing the future and seeing the future doesn’t necessarily mean that He is the cause of men’s future. He just knows what men will do and the decisions they’ll make. So, He can see it happen and still hold us responsible. You asked.
Clear as mud, but this explanation has helped me. I don’t for a minute believe Paul made this up. I accept that my understanding is limited. Paul says that we see in a mirror darkly and that’s true. But I can accept something because the Bible declares it without fully understanding it. I hope this helps.
Hi @TruthSeek It’s been a while since I’ve been here. I was corrected by @Johann ..I believe, that it was Christ who said “I am the Alpha and the Omega”.
Revelation 1:8 BSB
[8] “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and was and is to come—the Almighty.
Scripture is indeed written by men, just as human history is written by men, yet we believe what we read about history, never questioning its authenticity. How many scrolls, texts or historical documents were written of Cesar?
Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the “Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:8; 21:6; and 22:13. Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. Among the Jewish rabbis, it was common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything, from beginning to end. Jesus as the beginning and end of all things is a reference to no one but the true God. This statement of eternality could apply only to God. It is seen especially in Revelation 22:13, where Jesus proclaims that He is “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
One of the meanings of Jesus being the “Alpha and Omega” is that He was at the beginning of all things and will be at the close. It is equivalent to saying He always existed and always will exist. It was Christ, as second Person of the Trinity, who brought about the creation: “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” (John 1:3), and His Second Coming will be the beginning of the end of creation as we know it (2 Peter 3:10). As God incarnate, He has no beginning, nor will He have any end with respect to time, being from everlasting to everlasting.
A second meaning of Jesus as the “Alpha and Omega” is that the phrase identifies Him as the God of the Old Testament. Isaiah ascribes this aspect of Jesus’ nature as part of the triune God in several places. “I, the Lord, am the first, and with the last I am He” (41:4). “I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God” (Isaiah 44:6). “I am he; I am the first, I also am the last” (Isaiah 48:12). These are clear indications of the eternal nature of the Godhead.
Christ, as the Alpha and Omega, is the first and last in so many ways. He is the “author and finisher” of our faith (Hebrews 12:2), signifying that He begins it and carries it through to completion. He is the totality, the sum and substance of the Scriptures, both of the Law and of the Gospel (John 1:1, 14). He is the fulfilling end of the Law (Matthew 5:17), and He is the beginning subject matter of the gospel of grace through faith, not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9). He is found in the first verse of Genesis and in the last verse of Revelation. He is the first and last, the all in all of salvation, from the justification before God to the final sanctification of His people.
It just boggles my mind that people still question the authenticity of the Word, question the authors, question the truth of the Word, yet easily believe what they are told, or what they are “taught” in school. Never has a book in all of human history been questioned so much, yet there are mountains of evidence to support the word in texts, scrolls, historical accounts, physical evidence found in archeological discovery, and anecdotal evidence, yet people still question.
God has made big, obvious moves in my life, in front of others, who said “Wow! God really DOES deliver!” God has answered prayers for me, directly and quickly. God has made ways when I didn’t see a way. God has been right in my midst, revealing Himself to me in the most amazing ways. And in my moment of shock and pain, when I cried out to Him, asking “why?” He answered immediately.
Read Isaiah and tell me it doesn’t read like today’s headlines, yet it was written, what, 600 years before Christ? It’s living word.
My faith has been built up through prayer, and hearing God reply, reading scripture and hearing God s voice, community of believers who edify and encourage, mentor, teach, correct and rebuke. But my core faith comes from Him, and the relationship we have.
Ah yes. As Jesus said of some in His time. Well, here is the passage
“The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, [It will be] fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, it will be foul weather today: for the sky is red and lowering. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times?
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.”
Did I have to believe? Nope. Did anyone else have to believe? Nope. We do because we have faith and trust that God is real, He is what He says He is, and things are the way they are, and the future is what it is.
Look at gravity. Some believe it exists; maybe some don’t. Some study it in great detail, some casually just know. Let’s say you believe and I do not. We both go up to a high place. I step off because I do not believe in gravity. You are “saved”. You do not step off because you believe.
Did gravity kill me because of my lack of faith? No. Did it save you because you believe? No, not really. Gravity just is. It affects all the same, rich, poor, brilliant, and stupid, etc. If you step off, you will fall. High enough, you will die.
God is the same. Jesus came and died for us. It really is this simple.
“Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.” 1 John 5:12
Why?
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:16-18
I am really not trying to be rude here, but your belief or denial of the Truth does not affect me one iota. That is between you and God. I hope you do. But the choice is yours.
And my point is this. There is a difference between having Faith in God and having Faith in something that you were told by another person to believe.
Everything man proclaims, writes, and copies is suspect. Just the other day I watched a series of videos downloaded on to youtube over a series of days where an older man dressed like a news anchor declared with a straight serious face that Congress had impeached President Trunp, declared him a criminal, amd that the he was being picked up at the airport by the police. And the entire thing was devoid of any fact.
There are a multitude of Dogmas, each with a different shade of culture and theme. Even Christianity has divisions about what to believe and how to baptise and which Churches are right with God and which ones aren’t based on belief alone.
But Truth has nothing to do with any book, idea, or event that may or may not have happened, retold from a billion perspectives with a trillion interpretations
Truth, like God, does not change but remains constant no matter who looks at it. God does not change based upon our perspective. We are the ones who are changed by God. That is what I have Faith in. Cults are a dime a dozen, vying for control. God is not owned or shaped by anyone and needs no person to believe in Him in order to Exist. And He certainly does not need anyone’s permission or faith to do what He Will.
No, I do not see what you see. This sounds spiritual, but Scripture does not know the religion you are describing.
The Bible never contrasts “dogmatic believers” with “spiritual believers.” It contrasts truth with error, light with darkness, Christ with Adam. Jesus did not say blessed are those who leave room for uncertainty. He said sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth ~John 17:17. Calling certainty arrogance does not humble man. It dethrones God.
You make doctrine the tool of pride and love the real test, but Scripture says love rejoices in the truth ~1 Corinthians 13:6. Love divorced from truth is not God’s love. It is sentiment. The moment love is used to excuse falsehood, it becomes a tool of deception. John is explicit. Whoever does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God ~2 John 9. That is not dogma. That is God speaking.
You say salvation is not about knowledge, yet eternal life is defined by knowing God and Jesus Christ whom He sent ~John 17:3. You say certainty ruins faith, yet Paul said he knew whom he had believed ~2 Timothy 1:12. You say Christ would not have needed to come if knowledge could save us, but Scripture says the problem was not knowledge. The problem was sin. Christ came to save sinners, not seekers of mystery ~1 Timothy 1:15.
When you say people in other religions may be walking with God if they love, you directly contradict Jesus. No man comes unto the Father but by Me ~John 14:6. Peter said there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved ~Acts 4:12. Scripture does not leave room here. Love does not bypass the cross.
The talk of all being one, of creation and God melting into each other, is not biblical unity. It is confusion of Creator and creature, which Paul says is the root of idolatry ~Romans 1:25. God loves His creation, yes. But He also says the world lies in wickedness ~1 John 5: 19 and that men are by nature children of wrath until reconciled through Christ ~Ephesians 2:1–5.
Here is the hard question Scripture forces. Are you calling people to repentance and faith in Christ crucified and risen, or are you offering them peace without the cross. Jesus did not preach wholeness. He preached repentance ~Mark 1:15. He did not say tend your garden and all will be well. He said you must be born again ~John 3:7.
This is not freedom from religion. It is a religion of self, dressed in poetry and protected by vagueness. Truth becomes the enemy because truth demands a verdict. Scripture does not apologize for that. Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. ~ Matthew 7:13.
Fog feels peaceful. Light exposes. And Jesus did not come to preserve mystery. He came to bear witness to the truth ~John 18:37.
That’s okay. I wasn’t talking to you. I was talking to Reine. But thank you for expressing your belief.
I see your confusion here. It is a misunderstanding of the noun, “knowledge” with the verb “To Know.” Knowledge is information in your head. To know is to become intimately acquainted with, to join together, to be in relationship with. Knowing God exists is not the same as knowing God.
And as 1 Corinthuans 8 says,
We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know. But whoever loves God is known by God.
And LOVE is at the core of any relarionship if it is good and healthy and right. Especially when that relationship is with God. In fact, the ten commandments and Christ both instill this.
You should really read my full posts rather than out of context snippets. It might make more sense.
LOVE is not a religion of self. You could not be farther from the Truth. Every reference that I used regarding One Creation comes from the Bible. Adam and Eve, the Body of Christ, the first and second born, brothers keeper, helping our neighbor and so on.
A true religion of self is about getting what you think you deserve, because you are doing all the right things (like the first born in the prodigal son parable) and holding the sins of others against them (after your own sins have been forgiven, which is hypocrisy) while hoping they too get what they deserve which you believe is to be damned and burning in eternal flames forever… when you don’t really know if they even have a relationship with God.
A religion of self is when you just assume you know the state of someone’s soul based on surface evidence and the criteria by which you base your judgements on, personally deciding in your own mind who is worth saving and who should be thrown away. In a religion of self, you confuse your understanding for God’s Truth. They are not the same thing. And using Scripture to continue to do so, as the Pharisee did, even when someone tries to show you the fallacy in doing so.
A religion of LOVE considers the wellbring of others no matter who or what they are. It does not use bias, prejudice, or conditions to determine the degree of LOVE or acceptance that is given to them, or to deny service or help or medical aid when it is requested A religion of LOVE is when you LOVE others as if they are an extension of yourself- with hopefully more determination than you might give to a house plant or road kill.
Nope. Never said that. What I attempted to communicate is that I have no faith in you, the church, and you, mankind or anything your hands have made, written, copied, or touched. God offers Wisdom, and you make golden cows. So no, I have no faith in you or what you tell me I have to believe to be saved.
My Faith is in God alone. Not Philosphy, not Religion, not Dogma- because your hands touched it. God alone.
Only in God do I feel certain. The rest I ponder, as the Virgin Mary did when the angel told her she was with child. Do I believe the incredible things you, the Church, say? Because what you say does not happen in the realm of norrnal human experience… And Judaism does not exactly match up with Christianity theologically. And Rome had a hand in what the Church became, and the Church as a result called Pagan gods and goddesses human Saints (lies). They said Christ was born around a Pagan holiday (lie). Books in the Bible were altered with time. Things were added, changed, attributed to Prophets and Apostles who did not write them. (Manipulation) Christian Translations of Jewish texts alter the normal Hebrew translation of Scripture to make it more friendly to Christian Doctrine and to sound like Christ is there when He may not be (manipulation). Should I go on about why I don’t have faith in you, Church? Or you, mankind?
And do I trust what you, the Church, preach when I can clearly see the evil done with it in God’s Name throughout history? The fear mongering, the murder, the slaughter of the innocent, the bloodshed in the Name of Christ. And Now, knowing that, I trust you even less. I had faith in you when I was younger. I believed what you said. But I will never ever have faith in you again. But God has never failed me. God alone has been faithful. So I will never stray from Him. Not like you have.
Amen! Let me also try this @Tillman You seem to be calling Christianity a cult. Religion is not Salvation. This is very true. However, let me try this.
There is a glass, it is half full of clear liquid. That liquid is water. That is the Truth. That is reality. That simply is. Now, a group of people who were there when the one put that glass there and filled it halfway with water, shares that truth with others.
Now, some time later, some will say the glass was half empty. Some will say it was empty, just a figment of their imagination. Some will say the liquid has to be vodka. Some will even argue that there was no glass at all. Who is right? Who is wrong? Those who believed the witnesses are right. Even though there are many different groups out there saying many different things, only one has the Truth. Yes, even though it sounds a bit rough, all other groups, or people who say anything else except “There is a glass, it is half full of clear liquid. That liquid is water.”, are wrong or lying.
“Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6
“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” John 11:25-26
And
“For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in his glory and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.” Luke 9:26
Everyone else who does not agree with this, the Word of God, IS wrong. Is not going to heaven, and IS most likely living in sin. AKA Not saved. True Christianity is not a religion; it is the Truth.
Oh, and this just caught my attention. If you do not believe the Bible, what Jesus taught, and what God says, then how are you certain of God? Where do you get the impression, information, that you hold as truth? What does God want you to know? Honest question. Do you base it on feelings?
I believe this, along with many similar “-isms”, contributes directly to faulty theology, repeated disappointment, and deep emotional scarring produced by what is often called “churchianity” rather than biblically grounded faith.
Agreed. Sad thing is, if I chose, and no, I never would, but if I chose, I could start Peterism. After my death, you have Peterism, Petetites, Carlockians, ETC. Yet only one would hold the “truth.” I know, scary, right?
Scary indeed, and lamenting how easily people create movements around men, attach labels to themselves, and substitute those labels for fidelity to Scripture and the cross, which Scripture treats not as harmless diversity but as a serious theological distortion.
And in the New Testament this problem already appears, because believers begin identifying themselves by human leaders rather than by union with Christ, which Paul rebukes sharply when factions say “I am of Paul” or “I am of Apollos” or “I am of Cephas,” exposing this as spiritual immaturity and a denial of the sufficiency of the cross ~1 Corinthians 1.12, ~1 Corinthians 3.3–5.
If I chose so, and no, I never would, but if I chose, I could start the “Yochanine club” and that’s where it would end, scary right?
I wonder sometimes about people who always play the victim when confronted with wrong doing. Who never apologize when what they have done has been presented to them. Who somehow manage to play the victim when they are the ones who sinned.
I also wonder about people who twist the words of others in order to slander, to make the speaker look bad, to win theological fights.
Mental health is so important to take care of. When a person is gripped with madness, they cannot be reasoned with. The Truth cannot be seen. And because of the madness, they lash out at anyone who threatens the delusions they hold,. They cannot handle a challenge to what they believe because it threatens their fragile hold on reality itself. Suddenly someone who simply disagrees with them becomes a threat and an enemy.that must be destroyed.
Furthermore, they project their own sins upon others because they can never be the one who is wrong, who sinned, who looks bad. This is called Shadow Work. They need the object of scorn to shed their own guilt upon. To blame. To wrestle with. To hate. (Instead of taking personal responsibility, seeking true repentence and attonement, learning and absorbing the understanding necessary for change, and being transformed.)
And none of that is a behavior taught by Christ. Or a fruit of the Holy Spirit. But the heart always reveals itself. When you are right with God, the Holy Spirit will be evident. But when you fake it, or hold false doctrines, the evidence is found all around you: in your words, your tone, your behavior… like the residue of cigarette smoke. And your lack of Testimony of what Christ has done in your life shows you never knew Him.
