How does anyone know for sure that Jesus actually “inspired” them? I’ll stick with the truly-canonical books; there’s plenty in those books alone to “chew” on spiritually.
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Well said brother @SincereSeeker
J.
Again, Scripture is sufficient for bringing people to belief and salvation, but, also again, it’s an incomplete knowledge of Jesus. The apostle John proves this when he said that not everything Jesus did was written. (Jn. 21:25)
Jer. 6 proves what Jesus has said, which is that Satan and his servants can’t produce peace, and that’s why peace was absent, despite them proclaiming “Peace!”
The existence of thousands of other denominations, each differing in understanding of Scripture, flies in the face of Jesus’s desire of one flock. God isn’t the author of chaos and confusion. That’s caused by Satan and people listening to him, often without realizing it.
Well, I had asked you if all the differing interpretations of the same verse are accurate? And, if not, then how did you come to rule out the possibility that your interpretation is inaccurate?
I never said the problem is with the Word, but rather pointed out what people can do to it, or how they interpret it. And, for example, when Christians cite a verse they believe supports reincarnation or killing people (and ive seen Christians do this), that’s interpretational error. Or, take you for example, someone who misinterprets Grace to mean that God changes a person’s will.
Soul,
You’ve said a lot, and you’re trying to thread the needle between respect for Scripture and defense of mysticism. But brother, that thread keeps snapping because you’re stitching together two opposing fabrics: biblical sufficiency and extra-biblical revelation. They don’t weave. They unravel each other.
First, let’s lock this down: John 21:25 doesn’t mean Scripture is incomplete in what God intended us to know. It means not everything Jesus did was recorded—but everything necessary for faith and life was. That’s not speculation. That’s John 20:31: “These are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ… and that by believing you may have life in His name.” God gave us the exact measure needed. Not more. Not less. Not Valtorta.
You keep repeating the “Scripture is sufficient but incomplete” line. But that’s like calling your foundation “solid but missing bricks.” If it needs mystical filler, it was never sufficient. And if it’s sufficient, then adding visions and poetic rewrites isn’t reverence. It’s spiritual inflation.
On Jeremiah 6: again, Satan doesn’t need to produce actual peace. He fakes it. That’s why the people felt secure while judgment loomed. That’s why Jesus and Paul warn about wolves in sheep’s clothing, not dragons breathing fire. Satan’s strategy is seduction, not shock and awe.
And now your take on interpretation. Yes, people twist the Word. But you’re using that reality as a backdoor to say maybe Maria Valtorta got it right and the rest of us are just reading it wrong. That’s not humility. That’s relativism. Just because bad interpretations exist doesn’t mean we start entertaining extra-biblical voices. We go back to the Book, not forward into visions.
You accused me of misinterpreting grace as God changing a person’s will. But that’s not a misinterpretation—it’s Romans 9. It’s Ezekiel 36. It’s John 6:44. It’s the Spirit breathing life into dry bones and turning hearts of stone into hearts of flesh. That’s grace. It doesn’t wait for permission. It resurrects.
So let’s not dodge anymore. If Scripture isn’t enough to know Jesus, then we are all adrift. But if it is—and it is—then every dream, vision, or mystical claim gets tested by it. And if it doesn’t hold up, it gets thrown out. No matter how moving, no matter how beautiful, no matter how sincere.
Jesus didn’t say “blessed are those who read the visions.” He said, “Blessed are those who hear the Word of God and keep it” (Luke 11:28).
—Sincere Seeker. Stay grounded. Stay sharp. Stay in the Word.
I can’t repeat what I never said. I actually said, “Scripture is sufficient for bringing people to belief and salvation, but it is an incomplete knowledge of Jesus.” John proves it’s an incomplete knowledge of Jesus because he mentioned that not everything He did was written (Jn. 21:25), but what was written is, again, sufficient for bringing people to belief and salvation.
Now, aside from Scripture, there’s God the living Being. You forbid God what He allows other living beings to have: the freedom to act. You can’t forbid God from showing you or anyone else visions of scenes from His own life on earth, or that of numerous early Christian martyrs and saints, explaining Grace, Faith, the Holy Trinity, the fall and rebellion of Lucifer and other angels, the disobedience of Eve and Adam, and so on. You can’t forbid God from talking about or showing visions of anything. And, He doesn’t need your permission. He already has done those things and He will continue to when He sees fit.
Saying that Satan “doesn’t need to produce peace” implies that he can produce peace if he wanted to, but he can’t produce what is of God, such as peace, because he is no longer of God. In Jer. 6 it’s shown that the false prophets couldn’t produce peace because “there was no peace”, despite them proclaiming “Peace!”
The definition of the word “interpretation” is “the action of explaining the meaning of something.” If you listen to other Christians, and not just the sound of your own voice, you’ll discover there are multiple interpretations of the same verse that exist in this world. I had asked you if all those interpretations of the same verse are accurate? And, if not, then how did you come to rule out the possibility that your interpretations of scriptural verses, be it some or all, are inaccurate? I’m still awaiting your answers.
The Christian (Catholic) Church, which has existed for over two thousand years because it was founded by Jesus on the apostles, is the one fold that He wants those of all other folds brought into to become one flock under one shepherd (Jn. 10:16). The existence of thousands of new Christian denominations over the past few hundred years and other religions flies in the face of Jesus’s desire of one flock under one shepherd. Satan, not God, is the author of that chaos and confusion.
Additionally, there are the individual Christians who believe, teach, and act the opposite of what God teaches in Scripture. Examples: the prosperity gospel, reincarnation, human evolution from apes, anti-Trinitarianism, rejection of the Immaculate Conception, supporting the killing of others, e.g, war, death penalty, abortion, and so on. And then they cite scriptural verses that they claim support those beliefs, teachings, and actions.
For these reasons and more, you cannot reasonably say that we don’t need to understand Scripture and Jesus better.
Soul,
You’re swinging hard, but you’re still swinging at a straw man. I’ve never said we don’t need to understand Scripture and Jesus better. I said the way to do that is through the Word illuminated by the Spirit, not through mystical writings that claim to finish what the Holy Spirit supposedly left “incomplete.”
Let’s go straight to the core.
You say, “Scripture is sufficient for salvation, but incomplete knowledge of Jesus.” You quote John 21:25 like it proves your case. But let’s be precise: John didn’t say Scripture is lacking. He said not everything Jesus did was written. Big difference. What was written is exactly what God wanted preserved. Not what Valtorta imagined. Not what Emmerich claimed. What was written is sufficient, authoritative, and final.
You accuse me of “forbidding God” from giving visions. That’s not the issue. The issue is this: God never contradicts Himself, and He never adds new doctrine to a closed canon. You keep using the freedom of God as a license to accept anything emotionally compelling. But God’s freedom doesn’t cancel His order. If God already said the Scriptures are enough to make the man of God complete (2 Tim. 3:17), then visions that claim to go beyond that don’t glorify God—they undermine His declared sufficiency.
And no—Satan can’t produce godly peace. But he can fake peace well enough to fool half the Church if it isn’t discerning. That’s the whole point of Jeremiah 6. False prophets promised peace. The people believed them. Judgment still came. Why? Because illusion is the devil’s game. Not chaos. Counterfeit.
You say “interpretation” proves Scripture is unclear. No. Interpretation proves the human heart is unfaithful. You want to talk about Catholics holding the one true interpretation? Let’s not pretend the Roman Church has a flawless history of keeping the truth. Purgatory, indulgences, Marian co-mediatrix claims—all of that proves that even the longest-standing institutions can swerve from Scripture.
You said people use verses to support nonsense like reincarnation and prosperity gospel. I agree. That’s not a point in favor of visions. That’s a call to return to sola Scriptura. We don’t solve bad theology with extra revelations. We solve it by reading what God already gave us—and submitting to it.
So no, we don’t forbid God from acting. But we do test every spirit. And if the message contradicts Scripture, leads people to rely on private visions, or starts writing commentary on the life of Christ as if the Gospels weren’t enough, then we know exactly where it came from. And it wasn’t Heaven.
—Sincere Seeker. Stay grounded. Stay sharp. Stay in the Word.
But, you do say that we don’t need God to help us understand Scripture and Himself better through Him taking recourse to visions and dictations, yes?
Again, John said that not everything Jesus did was written (Jn. 21:25), hence Scripture is an incomplete knowledge of Him. Also, again, what is written about Jesus is sufficient for bringing people to belief and salvation.
Jesus has said more than once that The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God, is not a canonical book, nor a fifth Gospel, but that it remains an inspired book. If God instructs you to describe in writing the visions you receive from Him, would those writings be inspired? Yes or no? If God has you write down His words that He’s speaking to you, would your writings be divine dictations and authoritative, since God is the author of them? Yes or no?
How is God showing someone visions of scenes from His own life, commenting on events that occurred within His own life, and explaining subjects such as love, faith, grace, justice, mercy, the Holy Trinity, and so on, undermining the sufficiency of Scripture?
But the people wouldn’t have felt peace, because Satan and his servants can’t produce what is of God, such as peace, because they are no longer of God. So, the people weren’t bearing in mind the effects of the false prophet’s words. It is not possible to be mistaken between God and Satan, between heavenly and hellish voices, if the one who hears them bears in mind not the delights of the words, but the effects which they produce. Satan can ape God in speech, but he cannot communicate that grace and peace which the words of God or of the spirits of light produce. He cannot produce grace and holiness because his words are always mixed with insinuations which cannot be accepted by a soul in grace. And he cannot produce a sense of peace because the soul in grace starts with horror at the hellish voices, and even if the individual has no other signs to recognize who the spirit speaking is, this shudder of the soul suffices to give man the signal that it is Darkness which is manifesting itself at that moment. Satan can deceive sinners dazed by sin, the thoughtless and unreflecting, the curious who out of excessive desire for knowledge, imprudently approach all founts. But he cannot deceive an upright spirit united to God. All he can do is disturb it, drawing near to it, or wounding it by his own action, or by that of unfortunates who, rarely realizing that they are doing so, much more readily unaware of doing so, at a given moment are instruments used by Satan to cause God’s instruments pain and dismay. But then God intervenes and draws them away, into the clear, and saves them, bathing them in His ocean of peace and love, because He loves them.
No. Again, God didn’t make His Word unclear, but each person has their interpretations of scriptural verses after reading them. The definition of the word “interpretation ” is “the action of explaining the meaning of something.” If you listen to other Christians, and not just the sound of your own voice, you’ll discover there are multiple interpretations of the same verse that exist in this world. I had asked you if all those interpretations of the same verse are accurate? And, if not, then how did you come to rule out the possibility that your interpretations of scriptural verses, be it some or all, are inaccurate? I’m still awaiting your answers.
It would be good
Soul, we’ve circled this block so many times the pavement’s starting to crack. But fine—one more lap.
You’re still hung up on this idea that visions, dreams, or private revelations somehow complete or clarify Scripture, as though God’s Word left some holes that mystics and poets need to patch. But the canon of Scripture isn’t a patchwork quilt—it’s a completed robe, woven tight by the Holy Spirit, not awaiting sequins from a 19th-century nun or 20th-century Italian visionary. John 21:25 says Jesus did more than what was written. That’s not a divine nudge for us to chase down every dream journal and assign it apostolic weight.
Your logic boils down to this: “Since not everything Jesus did was recorded, maybe He’s filling in the gaps now through Maria or Anne or someone else.” But that isn’t how divine revelation works. That’s how conspiracy theories work. The Apostles didn’t die brutal deaths so someone centuries later could scribble fan fiction and call it holy.
Now to the root—are writings describing personal visions “inspired”? Depends. If you mean God-authored, canon-equivalent, doctrinally binding? No. If you mean emotionally moving and personally edifying? Maybe. But emotional resonance doesn’t equal divine authority. A goosebump isn’t a green light for theology.
You asked: If God gives someone a vision and tells them to write, is that divine dictation? Answer: Not unless it’s infallible, universally binding, and Spirit-sealed into the closed canon of Scripture. And if you say yes—it’s inspired—then what you’ve got is a fifth Gospel on your hands, which Christ never sanctioned. If God was adding doctrine today, the Church would need to reopen the canon, reassemble the council, and rewrite every seminary textbook.
Instead, what we’re given is the faith once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 3). That’s past tense. And God’s not stuttering. He’s not sending bonus content through private revelations to patch what He already called complete (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
Lastly, you say Satan can’t fake peace. That’s naive. Of course he fakes it. Jeremiah 6:14: “They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace.” That’s not a demon with a fog machine. That’s false prophets selling counterfeit calm to tickle itching ears. Peace is not the feeling. Peace is the fruit—and Satan counterfeits fruit like a wax display at a grocery store. It looks real, but bite into it and you’ll break your teeth.
Soul, you’re mistaking the smoke of emotion for the fire of revelation. God gave us a closed Book, a complete faith, and a Spirit who illumines—not adds. Test every spirit. Hold fast to what is good. And stop trying to canonize what God has left on the editing floor.
—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.
At this point, it’s clear the conversation has reached diminishing returns. We’re no longer exchanging insights—we’re rewrapping the same ideas in different packaging. You’ve made your position plain, and so have I.
To be direct: unless a truly new thought or question is introduced—one that doesn’t just repeat or reframe what’s already been addressed—I won’t be engaging further in this thread. I’m not here to chase our own theological tails. That’s not fruitful, and it’s not faithful to the stewardship of truth.
God’s Word doesn’t change. And I’ve already said what needs to be said about its sufficiency, the boundaries of inspiration, and the danger of elevating subjective revelation above the closed canon of Scripture.
If something new is raised, I’ll respond. But we will not keep rehashing what’s already been answered. The gospel is too precious, the time too short, and the truth too sharp for endless circles.
—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.
@Soul, why don’t you think that God’s grace changes a person’s will? Look at the following verses in Acts 9 about Paul’s conversion from being a persecutor to a preacher of Jesus:
Act 9:10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
Act 9:11 And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying,
Act 9:12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.”
Act 9:13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem.
Act 9:14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.”
Act 9:15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
Act 9:16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.”
So, isn’t the Bible enough for your spiritual life, and how can you say that those other writings are “inspired”? How do they agree with the Bible, and how do they disagree with it?
Yes bible is enough, also i found many theological problems with Maria Valtorta’s writing, here it is: