Is our final home going to be heaven or a new earth?

Theology
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The Bible mentions heaven as our destination when we die and God’s creation of the new earth. Are we going to stay in heaven when Jesus returns, or are we going to live on the new earth forever? What do you think the Bible teaches?

Here are some relevant Scripture verses for your edification:

Luk_24:51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.

Act_1:11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

Mrk_13:27 And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

1Th 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband…
Rev 21:9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11 having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal…
Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

I draw the conclusion that our final home will be the new earth that God will create when Jesus returns. The new Jerusalem is a symbolic picture of the whole people of God, who will come down to the new earth in our resurrection bodies, where we will live and reign over the new universe with God forever. What do you think?

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Hi, why do you say the universe?

Is that in the Bible?

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God re-creates the “heaven and the earth” so that they are a “new” universe (Revelation 21:1):

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

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Hi, I guess when I think of universe I think of the expansion of planets and things in our system. So I guess you can use that word..idk..

Revelations doesn’t say that to me but I think I get the gest.

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Yes, @Corlovelove13, that’s the heaven and earth that John is seeing, but it’s new, since there isn’t any sea.

Isaiah also prophesies about it in Old Testament language but inspired by God by describing the final, eternal kingdom of God. Thus, people’s “old age” is a poetic description of believers’ eternal life and the animals’ and people’s friendliness is poetic of the peace of that future, perfect place. After all, it is Hebrew poetry:

Isa 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.
Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.
Isa 65:20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
Isa 65:21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the LORD, and their descendants with them.
Isa 65:24 Before they call I will answer; while they are yet speaking I will hear.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.

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Any particular reason for adding an “s” at the end of Revelation?

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N.T. Wright is fond of saying that the Bible is less interested in telling us about life after death, and more interested in telling us about life after life after death. That is, Scripture talks about the Age to Come, after we have been raised from the dead, and God makes all things new and sets all things to rights–the renewed and made-new creation “new heavens and new earth”.

The Bible says remarkably little about what we often describe as “going to heaven”. It certainly says enough that we can be confident that between the death of the body and the resurrection of the body we are with the Lord, and since the Lord has ascended into the heavens and is seated at the right hand of the Father–well to be in the Lord’s presence is certainly in the heavens (in heaven).

St. Paul, for example, in 2 Corinthians when speaking of the present realities of this fallen age says that we rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord (the Greek words the Apostle uses here effectively mean “emigrate from the body and immigrate to the Lord”. The Lord Jesus Himself tells us that in the Father’s house are many rooms, and He goes to prepare a place for us so that where He is, we shall be also. In St. John’s Revelation we read of the martyrs who are before God under the altar who are given white robes and told to wait a little longer.

In all of this we see that the evidence that there is a conscious existence between bodily death and bodily resurrection. But this “going to heaven” is what many theologians refer to as the “intermediate state”, it’s not the ultimate state–resurrection and everlasting life in the Age to Come–it’s an intermediate state, a time of waiting, a foretaste of future glory as we rest and wait in the Lord.

To put it another way, “going to heaven” is the pre-show, not the main event. Or it’s the entrance lobby, or the way station. When I get on the bus and it stops at the bus terminal and I’m waiting, I’m not at my destination yet, I’m on my way to the destination, I may have a moment to get out and stretch my legs, but I’m not where I’m heading yet. If I board a plane on vacation to a tropical island, the temporary layover isn’t my vacation destination–it’s just the layover. Etc.

The Biblical story is one about the Good Creator God who made all things, and sin and death has made a mess of the Good Creation. God’s response to the mess isn’t to do away with everything, but to heal, restore, redeem, and rescue it. That’s the whole biblical story of redemption, finding its climax in Jesus Christ.

The Bible is the story of God’s Covenant Faithfulness toward His creation in Jesus. That’s why the problem of death has to be dealt with, Jesus dies and rises from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father, from whence He will come again. God doesn’t just abandon His creation to death, so that the whole universe eventually fades toward ultimate entropy–nor does God just say nothing He made matters and then abolishes it–and then we all escape the material universe by living forever as disembodied ghosts floating around in some place called “heaven”.

God is Faithful. The dirt underneath our feet is God’s good creation, and He intends even the dirt and grass for glory.

So God is going to do right by His creation, and make it new. That’s why St. Paul speaks in Romans 8 of how all creation groans in the pains of childbirth, groaning for that future glory as creation is, right now, subject to futility. The futility of death makes all creation suffer, and so creation itself longs for something–that something is the resurrection of the dead, “the redemption of our bodies”. For even as God has raised Jesus up from the dead, so God is going to give life to our mortal bodies, “for this mortal must put on immortality” as Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 15. For Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection, and when He comes again in glory, all who belong to Christ shall be raised, God will set all things to rights and He shall be all in all.

Recall the Prophet Isaiah who foresees the coming time when even the wolf and lamb recline together, where the lion will eat straw like an ox, and the small child will play safely near the viper’s den. This is new creation. St. John tells us death is no more, every tear is wiped away, and all things are made new.

So the glory of God shall fill all things, or as the Prophets tells us, the glory of God will cover the earth as waters cover the seas, the Prophets also tell us that the day shall come when justice shall flow like an everflowing river.

We see, Paul writes, “through a glass dimly” but then “face to face”.

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No, sometimes our brains hear things and write them as we hear the sound..my mistake

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I happen to pass by this post.

So are you saying Isaiah prophecy is to come?

Is the sea literal?

My first take was a gulf between God and man

As the heavens- God’s rule has come to earth, like the scripture: thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is (in the heavens ) In heaven.

God’s order..Just a thought.

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Yes, @Corlove13, the Isaiah prophecy as amplified by Revelation 21 is to be fulfilled yet in the future, as 2 Peter 3 says literally:

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!
2Pe 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

I don’t know if the absence of the sea is literal or figurative. The sea often is symbolic of evil in some OT poetic passages. Perhaps, that’s its meaning.

The new Jerusalem, representing all Old and New Testament believers, with the Father and Jesus on the throne comes down to the new earth in Revelation 21, so I think your thoughts are correct.

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Your home is not a place. It is a spirit. It is what you bind your life to. What character traits define who you are? Are you selfish, miserly, vengeful? That is your home. You are joined to that spirit which never satisfies, even until death. You are bound to wander Arid Desert Places looking to live another life through another person like the spirit that lived through you. This is how kingdoms are spread. This is how spirits grow in power. They devour, binding you to them.

Live in Christ instead, live in Divine Love, and you will never be homeless again. For God has a mansion with many rooms. And no one forsakes that Spirit when they know what Living Waters She offers. Joy, fulfillment, peace, hope, faith, trust, kindness, compassion, forgiveness, grace, nourishment without need for service or dime to pay. She imparts Truth and never leads astray.

That Spirit will tell you no lies, She heals all those She touches, and restores them to Life.. There is no bondage in Freedom. No prison found. Love freely gives and receives with no agenda. Only to care for Her children.

Such is where those angels dwell, who look after all mankind in the Name of God and His Kingdom, challenging every stronghold in order that Life be restored.

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@Tillman, my present home, where I have one foot, is in a spiritual place called heaven, where believers pray to and advise the King of the universe, the 3-in-1 God. But I also have one foot on earth, where God has called me to be his blessing to Christians, seekers, and unbelievers, who will read and listen to God’s ministries online and in books that he guides me to write.

I’m curious, though, why you refer to the Holy Spirit as “she,” when the Bible consistently calls the Spirit “he”? Where have you gotten that pronoun for him?

The first place that I will truly have is heaven when I die; I put on the head stone of my late wife and me the saying, “Home at last.” Then, when Jesus returns, my final home will be in God’s glorious, perfect kingdom on the new earth in my perfect, glorious, resurrection body only through Jesus’ death and resurrection.

Isaiah 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

2Peter 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

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Because I have studied the Bible and Church history in a University setting. And I have done research on my own.

Here is a link of a wiki page that explains the talking points and some jumping off points for you to do your own research. Not everything is set in stone, Mr. Leiter. Some things are debatable or mutually agreed upon without absolute proof..

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You are definitely right about some matters that are disputable, @Tillman. Ah, so, are the early Church fathers the basis for your usage?

I think that the western culture has influenced disputers to question the biblical usage of “he” and “his” for the “Holy Spirit,” perhaps out of the secular egalitarianism of the society around us.

Such thoughts must drive us back to the Scriptures, because our culture has no biblical basis for such ideas. We look at John 4:24, John 14:16-17, and 2 Corinthians 3:14-18:

Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

It is true that the references to the “Helper,” “Councilor,” or “Comforter” are neuter. But I’ve already explained my suspicions about the source that makes those references into feminine. If it is what they think it is, we should look to other passages for evidence, like the following:

2Co 3:14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
2Co 3:15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Paul in verse 17 identifies the Spirit with the Lord (Jesus). He generally uses the name “God” for the Father; “Lord,” for Jesus; and “Spirit” for the Holy Spirit. If Jesus is one with the Spirit, the latter must be “he” and “him,” the translations all say.

Also, Jesus says that God is spirit. Therefore, since two of the three Persons of one God, clearly revealed in the whole Gospel of John, all of them consist of one spiritual substance, including the Holy Spirit:

Joh 4:24 “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Such biblical evidence is better than cultural evidence any day.

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Think you have it wrong here @Tillman

The claim that the Holy Spirit is female because ruach (רוּחַ) in Hebrew is grammatically feminine collapses once you separate grammar from ontology.

Biblical languages assign gender to nouns arbitrarily, not biologically.

For example, in Hebrew eretz (אֶרֶץ, “earth”) is feminine, while shemesh (שֶׁמֶשׁ, “sun”) can be either masculine or feminine (Gesenius’ Hebrew Grammar, §107). No one argues the sun changes gender depending on the verse.

When the Old Testament was translated into Greek (Septuagint), ruach became pneuma (πνεῦμα), which is neuter, not feminine. Yet when Jesus spoke of the Spirit in John 16:13–14, He deliberately used the masculine pronoun ekeinos (“He”) for the Spirit, overriding grammar to stress personhood (see Daniel Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, p. 331). This proves biblical writers did not bind the Spirit’s identity to noun gender.

Latin carried the same pattern. Spiritus is grammatically masculine, but again, no father of the church concluded the Spirit is a “male being.” They consistently taught the Spirit as fully divine, coequal with Father and Son, transcending biological sex (see Augustine, De Trinitate, I.7; Basil, On the Holy Spirit, 9).

Yes, some Fathers like Theophilus of Antioch and Irenaeus linked the Spirit to Wisdom (sophia in Greek, a feminine noun). But this was allegory, not ontology. Proverbs 8 personifies Wisdom as a woman, yet Proverbs 3:19 makes clear Wisdom is a divine attribute by which God founded the earth, not a separate female deity.

As Larry Hurtado (Lord Jesus Christ, p. 160–161) observes, personifications like Wisdom and Word were literary ways of speaking about God’s activity, not actual persons.

Theologically, the Spirit is God (Acts 5:3–4), is eternal (Hebrews 9:14), and proceeds from the Father and Son (John 15:26). God is Spirit (John 4:24) and is neither male nor female in essence. Masculine revelation (Father, Son) communicates authority and covenant roles, not sexual biology.

To call the Spirit “female” is to mistake grammar and metaphor for being, a classic category error.

Scholarly anchors:

Gesenius, Hebrew Grammar, §107 (on gender of nouns).

Daniel Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, p. 331 (on ekeinos in John 16).

Augustine, De Trinitate, I.7 (Spirit coequal, not gendered).

Basil, On the Holy Spirit, 9.

Larry Hurtado, Lord Jesus Christ, pp. 160–161 (Wisdom/Logos personification).

F. F. Bruce, The Epistle to the Hebrews (NICNT), on Hebrews 9:14 (Spirit as eternal, divine).

Punchline: The Holy Spirit is not female, not male, not neuter. He is God. Grammatical gender in Hebrew, Greek, or Latin is a linguistic tool, not a divine revelation of sex.

To argue otherwise is to confuse word-forms with God’s essence, and that is a linguistic fallacy, not biblical theology.

Not being argumentative brother.

J.

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@Johann

@Bruce_Leiter

Nope, this is both historical and canonical. There was an early church sect that called the Holy Spirit by the feminine. Pre Roman influence.

And I never said the Holy Spirit is Male or Female. I used a pronoun. Just as you did. I think God is bigger than pronouns. But people like to argue.

I can understand how having a cultural leaning can affect a person’s ability to accept this. But if you do actual reaearch you will find it true. Unfortunately, many believers have lost the capacity to think with proper reason due to their own insistance to war with the counter culture, causing them to be argumentative by nature rather than for any logical Godly purpose. Which is why alt right ideology should have no presence in the church.

Just because someone can string a set of Scriptures together to argue a point does not make their point Gospel Truth.

Blessings.

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@Tillman

Many people find the doctrine of the Holy Spirit confusing. Is the Holy Spirit a force, a person, or something else? What does the Bible teach?

The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a person—that is, He is a personal being, rather than an impersonal thing. First, in almost every instance, pronouns used in reference to the Spirit are he and him, not it. In this way, the original Greek of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is grammatically neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement. Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13–14). There is no other way to understand these ”ungrammatical” pronouns related to the Holy Spirit—He is a personal being, a “He.”

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a collective reference to one Triune God. Also, we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit can be sinned against (Isaiah 63:10) and lied to (Acts 5:3). We are to obey Him (Acts 10:19–21) and honor Him (Psalm 51:11).

The personhood of the Holy Spirit is also affirmed by His many works. He was personally involved in creation (Genesis 1:2), empowers God’s people (Zechariah 4:6), guides (Romans 8:14), comforts (John 14:26), convicts (John 16:8), teaches (John 16:13), restrains sin (Isaiah 59:19), and gives commands (Acts 8:29). Each of these works requires the involvement of a person rather than a mere force, thing, or idea.

The Holy Spirit’s attributes also point to His personality. The Holy Spirit has life (Romans 8:2), has a will (1 Corinthians 12:11), is omniscient (1 Corinthians 2:10–11), is eternal (Hebrews 9:14), and is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7). A mere force could not possess all of these attributes, but the Holy Spirit does.

And the personhood of the Holy Spirit is affirmed by His role as the third Person of the Godhead. Only a being who is equal to God (Matthew 28:19) and possesses the attributes of omniscience, omnipresence, and eternality could be defined as God.

In Acts 5:3–4, Peter referred to the Holy Spirit as God, stating, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” Paul likewise referred to the Holy Spirit as God in 2 Corinthians 3:17–18, stating, “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”

The Holy Spirit is a person, as Scripture makes clear. As such, He is to be revered as God and serves in perfect unity with Father and Son to lead us in our spiritual lives.

Just to add-

  1. דִּבֶּר (dibber, “spoke”)
    – “The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, and His word was on my tongue” (2 Samuel 23:2).
    The Spirit speaks, the very same verb used for prophets and for YHWH Himself. An “it” cannot do this.

  2. נָחָה (nachah, “to lead, guide”)
    – “As cattle that go down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD gave them rest. So You led Your people” (Isaiah 63:14).
    The Spirit leads and guides, the same action attributed to the Shepherd of Israel.

  3. לִמֵּד (limmed, “to teach”)
    – “You gave Your good Spirit to instruct them” (Nehemiah 9:20).
    The Spirit teaches. This is active pedagogy, personal communication, not an impersonal force.

  4. עָמַד (amad, “to stand, support, sustain”)
    – “The Spirit entered me and set me on my feet” (Ezekiel 2:2).
    The Spirit empowers and raises up Ezekiel, a deeply personal and dynamic action.

*5. בּוֹא (bo’, “to come, enter”)
– “The Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon” (Judges 6:34).
The Spirit comes upon individuals to empower them. This verb describes decisive arrival and indwelling presence.

  1. מָשַׁךְ (mashach, “to anoint”)
    – Though God is the anointer, the Spirit is the agent of anointing, as in Isaiah 61:1 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me.”
    The Spirit anoints for mission, prophecy, and kingship.

  2. עָצַב (atsab, “to grieve”)
    – “They rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit” (Isaiah 63:10).
    The Spirit can be grieved. This verb shows emotional and relational response, something impossible for an impersonal “it.”

Shalom.

J.

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I am sorry if it is confusing. I was never good at explaining things to people. Just know the Holy Spirit embodies love and can help you to become a better Christian. No matter what pronoun is used. I hope that helps.

If not, perhaps someone should make a Holy Spirit thread. This is no place to get lost in the woods.

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@Tillman, listen to @Johann, he speaks biblical truth. For me, the Bible assumes that we should call all Persons of the Trinity “he” and “him.” As a result, I do too. Whatever the Scriptures assume, my usage and beliefs follow suit; I don’t conform to the latest cultural fads.

I don’t follow “cultural leaning” beliefs, because I was a christened Methodist baby, attended and was immersed into membership in a neo-orthodox or liberal community church at the age of 12, became a believer while attending a Baptist church at 16, attended a cult for a while, joined the Christian Reformed Church because it seemed to have the closest interpretation to the Bible’s history and teaching, was a pastor in that denomination in 7 churches for 27 years, and was re-baptized in a very biblical independent church because they believe in believers’ baptism.

Thus, you see that I am very sensitive concerning doctrines that are at-odds with the Bible.

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That is your assumption. And you are free to make that assumption without condemnation. However, the Bible makes no claim or Law regarding what gender pronouns to use. It simply uses a pronoun choice. In some cases female descriptors, sometimes male descriptors, and sometimes neutral descriptors as the wiki link I posted discusses.

And as I have written before, If anything, God as a Creator embodies both the masculine and feminine principles. It should also be noted that Man was made in God’s image, but only the version of Man that was created before Woman was formed from his rib. Meaning Adam was both male and female before Eve was formed.

This original verson of man was a whole person. Furthermore, Pyschology shows that we have masculine and feminine components to our personalities even though we are born with only one physical gender, except for hermaphrodites who are born with a physical blend.

Everyone born from Adam and Eve is a blend of both masculinity amd femininity, which means the complete human, male and female parts united, are in the image of God. Man only returns to this image of God when the masculine and female parts are made one once again.

So to restrict the use of pronouns would be to say that God is limited, or not whole.

And again, if you guys want to discuss something other than where we go, there should be other posts for the Holy Spirit and or pronoun use.

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